Ram ProMaster van

Posted by: Hokiefyd

Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 02:01 PM

I saw one of these things morning and thought, "oh look, they managed to make a generally attractive Mercedes Sprinter look terribly ugly..."



http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/ram_promaster/

But looking more into it, it looks like they're marketing a commerical FWD cargo van. Interesting.

Steve, care to try one o' these in your business? Ha ha.
Posted by: cptbarkey

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 02:05 PM

it is a very serious contender in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6TSUeyowRw
Posted by: Miller88

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 02:08 PM

UGLY!

Amazing interior volume, though. Being able to do a simple beam axle in the rear because of FWD *and* unibody ... pretty great!

My first concern is, what if you are towing and you have a load in the back and it's snowing / slippery out? Getting that thing to try to move is going to be a pain in the snow! Put all of the weight in a Express/Savana or the new Transit.

My second concern - that thing has a pretty high payload and towing capacity for what is the engine and transmission out of the caravan. Wonder how the transmission will hold up?

Plus, changing spark plugs on that has to be a major pain in the rear.
Posted by: satinsilver

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 02:12 PM

18,500 OCI in the diesel version. Price seems reasonable compared to a Sprinter. But much different van I'm sure. Since there's no free lunch ever.
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 02:27 PM

I like it. Especially for work on a job site. A front wheel drive will beat a rear wheel drive every day in snow and mud.
And towing with a fwd is a dream. Point the wheel the way you want to go.
All in all its perfect for a tradesman. The cargo room is stellar and I could build beautiful shelving units along both sides.
Fuel mileage in a fully loaded van is never stellar and when we buy vans for work mileage is never a concern,and to be honest my favourite vans in our fleet is the fords with the 4.9 inline 6.
Sure the v-8s move the vans a bit better but I'm not out racing them,they get the tools from point A to point B so power to me is irrelevant.
My only concern is cost of ownership and what's it cost to maintain them. 6 plugs are cheaper than 8,5 litres of oil is cheaper than 6 litres etc.
We change the oil at 5000 mile intervals with synthetic because these vans are driven only in the city and very rarely to they achieve highway speeds.
Anyways I for one like the fwd idea. I loved our caravans that were outfitted for finish carpentry. We removed the seats and they became 2 seaters,sometimes 3 and we'd leave one of the back captains chairs installed.They handled great with a full load. Decent on fuel and they held everything a trim carpentry crew needed to trim out a house.
I'd like to see one of the vans in service. I'm sure they'd be great in the city as a delivery type truck.
Posted by: SteveSRT8

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Steve, care to try one o' these in your business? Ha ha.


Unfortunately the only mfgr that will keep your warranty intact in our duty cycle is GM, so it's nuttin' but Chebbies and GMC's here for now.

But I agree it is a nice van to do work out of, the packaging with FWD is remarkable and spacious!

As with most new vehicles I am a bit concerned about its durability in service...
Posted by: DuckRyder

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 03:05 PM

It is a Fiat Ducato

http://www.fiatprofessional.com/com/Models/Ducato_Goods_Transport
Posted by: expat

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 03:15 PM

http://www.citroenet.org.uk/utilities/h-van/hvan1.htm

"Amazing interior volume, though. Being able to do a simple beam axle in the rear because of FWD *and* unibody ... pretty great! "

Ditto, except the Citroen had independent rear suspension for a lower floor

AND if you want UGLY...... whistle
Posted by: bullwinkle

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 03:27 PM

I'm not seeing the usefullness here-we have 2 Transits, and they are USELESS in snow! There's no way the Fiat/Dodge would be able to carry the 4K in weight that I do, nor pull a 7K trailer!
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 03:28 PM

What's this manual/automatic tranny they are talking about. How does it work. Anyone have a link or have any details on this tranny they are mating to the diesel.
And why wouldn't they also mate the manual to the pentastar engine.
Posted by: DuckRyder

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 03:42 PM

Note too that a Transit and a Transit CONNECT are two quite different things.
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'm not seeing the usefullness here-we have 2 Transits, and they are USELESS in snow! There's no way the Fiat/Dodge would be able to carry the 4K in weight that I do, nor pull a 7K trailer!


I think they are claiming 4200 pounds inside,and if it was a rwd it would need that weight for traction.
My only concern is the tranny,or would this thing have a transaxle? Either way I'd like to see them with 100k miles on,with a full load,before I'd be comfortable buying one for our fleet.
I really like the front wheel drive idea,my only concern is are they able to build a drivetrain durable enough in a fwd platform to handle actual work duty.
I'm sure they'd be fine as a delivery type van only half loaded but what about a full load from the first driven mile.
I'll reserve judgement til I see posts in the forums about what kinds of issues are arising.
Looks like dodge is putting a lot of faith in the pentastar. And it looks like its putting down some good power numbers with some decent fuel consumption numbers as well.
If they put an mds type system in the pentastar they could get rid of the 4 cylinder option in some models,coupled with the 8 speed could give dodge a very interesting line up.
Posted by: skyactiv

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Clevy
What's this manual/automatic tranny they are talking about. How does it work. Anyone have a link or have any details on this tranny they are mating to the diesel.
And why wouldn't they also mate the manual to the pentastar engine.


Think VW DSG.
Posted by: skyactiv

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 03:43 PM

Don't be surprised if this van shows up on American Pickers.
Posted by: SteveSRT8

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 04:04 PM

Clevy,

Expect the Pstar to become DI and maybe even Fiat will bring in their Multi Air patents as well. It would then easily lead the pack in both power AND fuel usage.

And they already have a nine speed ZF unit mated to the smaller displacement Pstar in the new Jeeps. This unit is made for FWD and would be the most likely combo.
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 04:10 PM

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Clevy,

Expect the Pstar to become DI and maybe even Fiat will bring in their Multi Air patents as well. It would then easily lead the pack in both power AND fuel usage.

And they already have a nine speed ZF unit mated to the smaller displacement Pstar in the new Jeeps. This unit is made for FWD and would be the most likely combo.



Thanks Steve.

I will give it to dodge. At least they are making this segment interesting for the demographic of potential customers.
I wouldn't even have looked at a dodge van prior to these ones. I really like the diesel option and the pentastar is proving itself across many platforms,so I think its a natural in this type of application.
Vvt and multi-air could really give it stump pulling torque off the line,which it would need if it was lugging around 4000 pounds every moment of life.
And I really find the fwd aspect very interesting and makes the van more appealing to me as far as real everyday usage.
Posted by: Jarlaxle

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'm not seeing the usefullness here-we have 2 Transits, and they are USELESS in snow! There's no way the Fiat/Dodge would be able to carry the 4K in weight that I do, nor pull a 7K trailer!


4430lb payload, actually!
Posted by: eljefino

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 04:29 PM

I went looking for this thing on fueleconomy.gov.

Doesn't show up. Must be over 8500 lbs, a heavy 3/4 ton.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

They'll program it for anti-abuse, but we all know that only goes so far.

But the transit connect survives with a 4 cyl/ 4 speed auto. (?)
Posted by: Jarlaxle

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 05:09 PM

Totally different type of vehicle. The Transit Connect is a tiny van, this is a FULL-SIZED CARGO VAN!
Posted by: bullwinkle

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 05:25 PM

Honestly, we've had several Sprinters as well (Dodge unfortunately), and they pretty much ate us alive on maintenance & repairs, not to mention the rusting body panels (bubbling from the inside out, pretty much on every body seam). Assuming Fiat has built these in Europe for a while, maybe they have a handle on their problems/issues-but my confidence in the local Dodge dealers isn't that good, we had to do serious dealer shopping to find ones that were any good.
Posted by: mrsilv04

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder


And why wouldn't it be a Fiat? They own Chrysler now...
Posted by: MrHorspwer

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 07:18 PM

Best headline for the Ram Promaster, courtesy of Jalopnik:

Quote:
Non-Van Ram Man May Buy ProMaster Van, Become Pro-ProMaster Ram Van Master-Man

You there! Are you a man who likes Rams, but not vans? Then you should consider buying the Ram ProMaster van, and then you'll become a man who is both for the ProMaster Ram Van and a master man.
Posted by: rslifkin

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 07:39 PM

IMO, FWD is useless for carrying heavy loads or towing, as adding weight at the rear either doesn't change or reduces drive traction, rather than increasing it. If I needed a van, something like this would be solidly at the bottom of my list.
Posted by: DuckRyder

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04


And why wouldn't it be a Fiat? They own Chrysler now...


Naw you don't say...

confused

I thought that was fairly obvious... so obvious in fact I felt like it went without saying... crackmeup
Posted by: RTexasF

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 07:42 PM

It's meant for commercial work, looks is not part of the design.....DUH!
Posted by: hattaresguy

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/22/14 09:38 PM

Its a Fiat, Dodge/Ram is turning into just a name. Fiat is going to gut Chrysler in 10 years, keep the names that make money, scrap the ones that don't and start selling Fiat's.

Ram is going to be the trucks/commercial since Fiat doesn't make pickup trucks.
SRT is performance.
Chrysler will be luxury.
Fiat will be mainstream.
Jeep will be offroad and SUV's or spun off/sold.

Dodge will be joining Oldsmobile and Pontiac in the sky after they take it out behind the shed and shoot it.

Posted by: ms21043

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/23/14 01:51 AM

I test drove a 159"WB 3500 high roof recently. I liked the low floor, the huge opening rear and sliding doors that allow you load palletized stuff with a forklift no problem. The turning radius was tight for a vehicle its size and although i drove it empty, the Pentastar V6 had decent power. The way it's geared it should do ok when loaded also. The cab had seats for 3 and lots of stuff for todays electronic gadgets. USB, aux input, 12v power outs, bluetooth with steering wheel control for it and audio. Also handy were the clipboard built into the center armrest, overhead bins for things and rear view cam.

They'll sell lots of them.
Posted by: SteveSRT8

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/23/14 05:28 AM

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
IMO, FWD is useless for carrying heavy loads or towing, as adding weight at the rear either doesn't change or reduces drive traction, rather than increasing it. If I needed a van, something like this would be solidly at the bottom of my list.


Sachs Nivomats solve that issue nicely. They're on my car and they are an amazing self leveling shock with no other parts on the car!
Posted by: Miller88

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/23/14 08:50 AM

Raising the rear end will still make all of the weight over the rear axle. If the load is behind the rear axle, it will , in effect, take weight off of the front axle. Same as with towing a trailer.
Posted by: SteveSRT8

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/23/14 12:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Raising the rear end will still make all of the weight over the rear axle. If the load is behind the rear axle, it will , in effect, take weight off of the front axle. Same as with towing a trailer.


While you are technically correct think like a truck owner for a minute.

Where is that rear axle? When it is so close to the butt end of the vehicle like it is in this one there is no way you can put serious weight BEHIND that same axle.

As far as towing goes, I would never recommend FWD for towing much of anything...
Posted by: Eric Smith

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/23/14 08:21 PM

I tow quite a bit a FWD with no problems. Seeing that most fwd's isn't rated to tow more than 5k and that in self is a good load fine for most people. All comes down the engine/trans combo, overhang passed the rear axle etc.. no different that RWD's.

They have a long line of these things on Metcalf. Don't look half bad in person.
Posted by: SteveSRT8

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/24/14 05:12 AM

^^^Exactly. Typical framing contractor who tows a small trailer occasionally will LOVE these vehicles, they are obviously NOT real heavy duty trucks like our 3500 RWD service vans...
Posted by: hattaresguy

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/24/14 09:39 AM

My framers like LWB 3500's because they can fill them with [censored] and they are cheap to buy and run.

Just like the Sprinter if the price point is to high they won't get much market penetration.

Nissan is selling their vans like hot cakes to utility companies because they are under bidding GM and Ford.
Posted by: 01rangerxl

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/24/14 08:49 PM

More Euro Trash vans, just what we need. This one has been coming for a while though, and I think Ram Vans died in 2002 IIRC.

Soldier on Express/Savannah and full size NVs, you are the last of your kind!

It's a shame Ford is jumping on the tiny engine tin van bandwagon with the Transit. The E-Series is a seriously heavy duty vehicle built like nothing else in the "light duty" segment anymore. The big [censored] I-beams in the front suspension could eat a Euro van for lunch. It's a politically incorrect vehicle though...big, with a big engine, and lots of heavy metal throughout. It isn't a green tin van throwaway. I think these days a lot of businesses will "go green" rather than buy a van that will last 15-30 years, though I don't see how junking disposable tin vans will be green.

Interesting that when Nissan decided to get into commercial vans, they went with the tried and true enclosed pickup truck concept rather than a throwaway piece of foil.
Posted by: Spazdog

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/28/14 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder


I thought it would be an Iveco Daily first shrug
Posted by: DuckRyder

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/28/14 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder


I thought it would be an Iveco Daily first shrug


And Iveco is a ________ company and _________ company was created by a merger of _______ and who?

Ergo Iveco Daily = Fiat Ducato shrug
Posted by: Spazdog

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/28/14 09:12 PM

Is the Iveco Daily a FWD now? I haven't seen one in years. I haven't seen an Iveco in years. It seems like Isuzu took over the bobtail import market and rebadged Mercedes Sprinters (Freightliners) are the high roof van of choice.

Last Iveco Daily I saw was a dual rear wheel passenger bus. shrug
Posted by: DuckRyder

Re: Ram ProMaster van - 01/28/14 09:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Is the Iveco Daily a FWD now?...


Ah, I think you are right the Daily is rear wheel drive... it does appear to use Fiat engines and Iveco is "- A CNH INDUSTRIAL COMPANY" and CNH INDUSTRIAL COMPANY was "created from the merger of Fiat Industrial and CNH Global",

Appears the Daily slots above the Ducato in payload... shrug