WIX Filter Failure
- Thread starter ZeeOSix
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Improper installation. Cartridge must be installed on cap properly before installation.
Here are comments on YouTube made by the guy who had the filter failure. Gives some hints on what might have caused this failure.
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"This filter went into a highly modified BMW 2002tii motor, the oil has always looked black at the end of its life.
I'm guessing because of the engines high mileage (over 350K close to 400k) and because of the stock high pressure, engine driven fuel injection pump (over 400 psi at the injectors) . I also push my car more then your normal driver.
Yes this was a defective filter and it blew my motor.. K&N might be my next choice, or Mahle or Purilator, German car should have German Parts."
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"This filter went into a highly modified BMW 2002tii motor, the oil has always looked black at the end of its life.
I'm guessing because of the engines high mileage (over 350K close to 400k) and because of the stock high pressure, engine driven fuel injection pump (over 400 psi at the injectors) . I also push my car more then your normal driver.
Yes this was a defective filter and it blew my motor.. K&N might be my next choice, or Mahle or Purilator, German car should have German Parts."
Originally Posted By: 229
Improper installation. Cartridge must be installed on cap properly before installation.
??? Am I missing something?
I would be really interested if severe moisture/fuel dilution occurred and contributed to this problem.
Improper installation. Cartridge must be installed on cap properly before installation.
??? Am I missing something?
I would be really interested if severe moisture/fuel dilution occurred and contributed to this problem.
A filter that deformed from the factory would have the guts rattling around in the can which the installer would have easily noticed. The center tube is collapsed and seam clip is folded over, and all the oil pressure in the world could not cause that, so the engine didn't do it, either. Which tells me he did it himself after cutting it open in order to make 'cool' YouTube video.
Shenanigans.
Shenanigans.
Sad to say it, but...before people start to bash Wix, or any other brand just remember this mantra.
Sometimes, stuff just gets beyond your control and crud happens.
This wix filter is just one that failed, failures happen with any filter, Fram, Purolator,Wix, Etc. you never hear about the good ones because, they are good. When they go bad the rants against them come out, and that is what gives them a negative opinion, like the Fram cardboard endcaps, which is not a good design, but it does the trick for millions of cars. personaly i will go with a purolator or motorcraft, price is similar or less depending on what one, and it is a better made product for the price imho.
Do not let one wix failure be an indicator of quality or lack of quality, one failure does not make a filter company bad.
Non car example:
I bought a Dynex TV back in 2009, got it home, and a week later the backlight stoped working...now had i had the opinion of some people i would have been scared off the brand for life since it failed so easily, but i accepted a new identical TV from the same store and that one worked til i upgraded to a 32" sharp.
Sometimes, stuff just gets beyond your control and crud happens.
This wix filter is just one that failed, failures happen with any filter, Fram, Purolator,Wix, Etc. you never hear about the good ones because, they are good. When they go bad the rants against them come out, and that is what gives them a negative opinion, like the Fram cardboard endcaps, which is not a good design, but it does the trick for millions of cars. personaly i will go with a purolator or motorcraft, price is similar or less depending on what one, and it is a better made product for the price imho.
Do not let one wix failure be an indicator of quality or lack of quality, one failure does not make a filter company bad.
Non car example:
I bought a Dynex TV back in 2009, got it home, and a week later the backlight stoped working...now had i had the opinion of some people i would have been scared off the brand for life since it failed so easily, but i accepted a new identical TV from the same store and that one worked til i upgraded to a 32" sharp.
Here's my guess without reading ZO's response to my pm first. After watching the Fram youtube 'What's inside a filter' sent to me by ZO, I'm thinking the engines pressure regulator valve may have stuck, and the pressure crushed the interior of the filter. I find it difficult to believe that said filter was defective from the factory and the distortion was as shown. Pure speculation on my part.
But what's also interesting is the first youtube the guy says he had always run Fram with out issue. This was his first Wix.
But what's also interesting is the first youtube the guy says he had always run Fram with out issue. This was his first Wix.
i call [censored] but thats just me!
I still always buy Wix for the most part.
Periodically I get some other brand on sale but normally I use Napa Golds on my cars.
Periodically I get some other brand on sale but normally I use Napa Golds on my cars.
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
The center tube is collapsed and seam clip is folded over, and all the oil pressure in the world could not cause that, so the engine didn't do it, either.
I think it was definitely a large delta P across the media that caused the failure. Here are the possible factors I see in this case.
1) The guy says his engine has almost 400K miles on it.
2) The guy says he's running near 400 PSI direct fuel injection.
It looks like the oil if super black, and there are particles of carbon all over the end plate of the filter. I'm thinking this engine has so much fuel enrichment and ring blow-by that there is a lot of carbon being produced and caught by the filter, which eventually clogged it up. Once clogged up the filter tries to go into bypass, but if the bypass valve can't flow all the oil (or possibly failed) then the delta P across the media become very large and the center tube/media crushes inward.
It could be the oil pump's pressure regulator valve failed too and contributed ... but if the whole can was over pressurized it would have probably shown some signs of being bowed outward, but it doesn't look like that happened. Looks more like just a case of way too much delta P across the media.
Anyway, I thought it was funny that the guy who made the video thought it was all the filter's fault. My thought is the filter couldn't handle the harsh environment it was in ... hard to say how long that filter was on the engine based on how black the oil was.
This is NOT meant to be a WIX oil filter bashing thread. Any filter on that engine could have suffered the same fate ... he probably cut that one open because his engine blew up this time.
The center tube is collapsed and seam clip is folded over, and all the oil pressure in the world could not cause that, so the engine didn't do it, either.
I think it was definitely a large delta P across the media that caused the failure. Here are the possible factors I see in this case.
1) The guy says his engine has almost 400K miles on it.
2) The guy says he's running near 400 PSI direct fuel injection.
It looks like the oil if super black, and there are particles of carbon all over the end plate of the filter. I'm thinking this engine has so much fuel enrichment and ring blow-by that there is a lot of carbon being produced and caught by the filter, which eventually clogged it up. Once clogged up the filter tries to go into bypass, but if the bypass valve can't flow all the oil (or possibly failed) then the delta P across the media become very large and the center tube/media crushes inward.
It could be the oil pump's pressure regulator valve failed too and contributed ... but if the whole can was over pressurized it would have probably shown some signs of being bowed outward, but it doesn't look like that happened. Looks more like just a case of way too much delta P across the media.
Anyway, I thought it was funny that the guy who made the video thought it was all the filter's fault. My thought is the filter couldn't handle the harsh environment it was in ... hard to say how long that filter was on the engine based on how black the oil was.
This is NOT meant to be a WIX oil filter bashing thread. Any filter on that engine could have suffered the same fate ... he probably cut that one open because his engine blew up this time.
How about this, I just had a K&N Fail on me, and it was the main gasket, it doesnt matter who makes what etc, a name is a name, people/companies make mistakes, how it is. I wont STOP using a company if I have used them for years and had ONE mishap, now I have stopped using companies if all of a sudden I keep having the same mishap then we got an issue (ie used to fill up at Hess, then for about 2 months straight I kept stalling bad on their gas and turns out I had water in my tank, as in, none before filling up, then after BAM water)
Originally Posted By: sayjac
I'm thinking the engines pressure regulator valve may have stuck, and the pressure crushed the interior of the filter.
After watching his other video that you linked ... he did say the base gasket puked all over the place, which IS a sign that the oil pump's pressure regulator might have failed and over pressurized the whole filter. The WIX filters have a pretty thick can, so it may not have shown signs of bulging outward from the over pressure.
I think a loaded up filter along with a bad pump pressure regulator could have caused a two fold failure in this case. As mentioned before, could be the bypass valve just couldn't handle the bypass flow in this case and the excessive delta P crushed the guts inward.
I'm thinking the engines pressure regulator valve may have stuck, and the pressure crushed the interior of the filter.
After watching his other video that you linked ... he did say the base gasket puked all over the place, which IS a sign that the oil pump's pressure regulator might have failed and over pressurized the whole filter. The WIX filters have a pretty thick can, so it may not have shown signs of bulging outward from the over pressure.
I think a loaded up filter along with a bad pump pressure regulator could have caused a two fold failure in this case. As mentioned before, could be the bypass valve just couldn't handle the bypass flow in this case and the excessive delta P crushed the guts inward.
+1 on something funky with his engine.
How many blown filters do you see in the North with bulk 5w30 used in how many millions of vehicles? 10-15 degrees Fahrenheit is a warm spring day for some parts of North America.
He has a car set up for racing...with how many hundred thousand miles? Aren't you supposed to rebuild you engine every so often if you race it? All kinds of weird stuff happens to race cars when you go too long between rebuilds.
What weight of oil is he using?
Also, perhaps he is having to much "Fun" before his engine/oil are warmed up.
That combined with blow by, fuel dilution, and carbon buildup can lead to problems.
Nonetheless interesting case of oil filter collapse. Can't say I have ever seen anything like it.
How many blown filters do you see in the North with bulk 5w30 used in how many millions of vehicles? 10-15 degrees Fahrenheit is a warm spring day for some parts of North America.
He has a car set up for racing...with how many hundred thousand miles? Aren't you supposed to rebuild you engine every so often if you race it? All kinds of weird stuff happens to race cars when you go too long between rebuilds.
What weight of oil is he using?
Also, perhaps he is having to much "Fun" before his engine/oil are warmed up.
That combined with blow by, fuel dilution, and carbon buildup can lead to problems.
Nonetheless interesting case of oil filter collapse. Can't say I have ever seen anything like it.
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
A filter that deformed from the factory would have the guts rattling around in the can which the installer would have easily noticed. The center tube is collapsed and seam clip is folded over, and all the oil pressure in the world could not cause that, so the engine didn't do it, either. Which tells me he did it himself after cutting it open in order to make 'cool' YouTube video.
Shenanigans.
This guy crushed the filter. It looks like vertical force, probably from standing on the filter, collapsed the element. I don't think pressure differential would vertically flatten and twist the element like that. I don't believe you could develop that much pressure differential and also clog up the filter pressure relief valve. The whole oiling system would be sludge before that'
d happen. It's shenanigans like the Ecore pics and some Fram OCOD pics where someone pushed their thumb through the media
A filter that deformed from the factory would have the guts rattling around in the can which the installer would have easily noticed. The center tube is collapsed and seam clip is folded over, and all the oil pressure in the world could not cause that, so the engine didn't do it, either. Which tells me he did it himself after cutting it open in order to make 'cool' YouTube video.
Shenanigans.
This guy crushed the filter. It looks like vertical force, probably from standing on the filter, collapsed the element. I don't think pressure differential would vertically flatten and twist the element like that. I don't believe you could develop that much pressure differential and also clog up the filter pressure relief valve. The whole oiling system would be sludge before that'
d happen. It's shenanigans like the Ecore pics and some Fram OCOD pics where someone pushed their thumb through the media
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
This guy crushed the filter. It looks like vertical force, probably from standing on the filter, collapsed the element.
If you watch the other video of the guy that sayjac linked, it shows the same WIX filter before he cut it open. Towards the end, he shakes it and it rattles like mad ... so it was crushed inside the can. He couldn't have stood on the element before the can was cut open.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't think pressure differential would vertically flatten and twist the element like that. I don't believe you could develop that much pressure differential and also clog up the filter pressure relief valve. The whole oiling system would be sludge before that'd happen.
It is strange that it's crushed vertically and twisted too ... but if there was indeed a huge delta P on the outside of the media, then the end caps would also see the pressure. Strange things happen with large pressures. It's possible the bypass valve just couldn't flow enough oil to reduce the delta P ... especially if the oil pump pressure regulator failed and caused the pump to put out more oil volume than normal.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It's shenanigans like the Ecore pics and some Fram OCOD pics where someone pushed their thumb through the media
I don't think there are any shenanigan going on. I had a Purolator Classic with torn media (posted a thread about it here) ... no shenanigans were involved.
This guy crushed the filter. It looks like vertical force, probably from standing on the filter, collapsed the element.
If you watch the other video of the guy that sayjac linked, it shows the same WIX filter before he cut it open. Towards the end, he shakes it and it rattles like mad ... so it was crushed inside the can. He couldn't have stood on the element before the can was cut open.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't think pressure differential would vertically flatten and twist the element like that. I don't believe you could develop that much pressure differential and also clog up the filter pressure relief valve. The whole oiling system would be sludge before that'd happen.
It is strange that it's crushed vertically and twisted too ... but if there was indeed a huge delta P on the outside of the media, then the end caps would also see the pressure. Strange things happen with large pressures. It's possible the bypass valve just couldn't flow enough oil to reduce the delta P ... especially if the oil pump pressure regulator failed and caused the pump to put out more oil volume than normal.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It's shenanigans like the Ecore pics and some Fram OCOD pics where someone pushed their thumb through the media
I don't think there are any shenanigan going on. I had a Purolator Classic with torn media (posted a thread about it here) ... no shenanigans were involved.
He cut that can very straight and did not have the base plate completely cut off leaving some of it connected. And in the second video linked it looked like the top of the can had paint scrapped off and had been tampered with. I think the can had been cut open already, he just did a good job of cancealing that fact.
I'll look at the videos again closely. Here's my failed filter ... not a fraud. Filter failures do happen, and I doubt the majority of the failure incidents posted are true.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...902#Post2260902
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...902#Post2260902
I have never seen an oil filter's media collapsed and twisted like that unless it was done by a person. Media gets crushed inward or explodes outward, and it even comes apart, but it still retains it's basic shape( height anyway ). Twisted like that though? Crushed down like that? Not enough info to say if this is a true failure or a fraud. My gut says fraud.
I would doubt the validity of that video even if it was done about a Fram OCD! Media just doesn't twist and collapse like that.
I would doubt the validity of that video even if it was done about a Fram OCD! Media just doesn't twist and collapse like that.
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