Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800

Posted by: Mackelroy

Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/06/14 06:27 PM




Redline report , the moly is about half of the car oil type. It actually did better than expected flash wise. This was over a several month period all tight track, 30 to 100 mph corners. 2 quarts of 10w30 and 1 quart 20w50



Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/06/14 06:53 PM

The first report on the far right was 1100 mile on rotella 5w40 and the second report was 1900 mile on 15w40 Amsoil.

Ofcourse I was seeing a serious oil dgrade in the first 10,000 mile. I was doing oil changes about every 1100 miles with 5w40 rotella, after the first 300 mile breakin dump.

That's why I went to the Amsoil, tired of the 1100 mile changes. But after 10 or 15,000 mile the oil looked much better. And then I standardized around 2500 mile intervals.

But you can see atleast with the redline, I could extend.

But to me with the wear, it looks like a 300,000 mile motor easily.
Posted by: Sonataman

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/06/14 07:06 PM

183 ppm on lead! Where/wear from? Leaded race gas?
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/06/14 07:09 PM

Yes, that's from VP c12
Posted by: quarterliter

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/06/14 09:17 PM

That's impressive! I feel good about my redline in my bike now
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/06/14 09:30 PM

Normally I don't like a 30 weight in a motorcycle or 5w40 pao's, which are nearly the same. Ive seen the lobe wear with sustained high rpm use.

I would have preferred the 10w40, but they only had 10w30 and 20w50, so I used 1 quart 20w50 and 2 quart 10w30. Looking at the VIS, the 20w50 aided the 10w30 holding up, it was still a 30 weight after the fact. I think done over I might try two 20w50 and one 10w30. For a much longer change interval.

BTW this bike has never seen a valve check or had the valve cover off in 105,000 miles.
Posted by: quarterliter

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/07/14 07:33 AM

Why not at least check the valves? That may be reckless
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/07/14 08:27 AM

clearly the track time (which track? cota?) burnt of the fuel issue you had been having in your uoa's

very interesting that with track time the alum went down.
yet copper came up and iron stayed the same.

does the RL use si as an antifoamer?

and that magnesium value really jumped, way different brew there.

c12 huh. try ms103 next time. wont hurt the cats. and doesnt leave the orangeish globs of lead behind in the cylinder head and piston crown. how much c12 did you run through it? 1 tank?
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/07/14 12:27 PM

Orange globs(ms103), what fuel you been running? fuel without the lead, does me no good, I run it for the lubrication and decarburization.

C12 is outstanding, no deposits and the lead oxides eats carbon like crazy. I've ran it In a few bikes for a few hundred thousand miles. But I run a low mixture, just enough to do what I need it to do.

You did notice there was 100,000 miles between this uoa and the last, and no fuel worth mentioning this round.


I think Redline tends to show some weird elements, and some of these elements could be from residual oil(previous). But for Redline, this looks very very nice.
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/07/14 02:41 PM

lead will leave the orange globs.
i asked the guy at VP and he told me it was lead.
hmmmm, been a long time. maybe that was c12 or it was howell 002 that occured for me.

yes i did notice the miles, in the total and for just that uoa.

that's a lotta seat time.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/07/14 05:33 PM

Ive never seen globs at all, or Even a little contaminant or I wouldn't run it, I run it for the exact opposite reason, prestine conditioning.

I've heard and read about Lead deposits and such, but Ive never seen that issue at all with c12 with the mixture I routinely run. The only other fuel ive run was Sunoco 112 leaded, I noticed the tail pipe lead oxide was not a clean as c12.

But you know there are so many formulas out there from Pump leaded of the past, to aviation lead, to various race fuels, Im sure some of it produce issues or else where would they all come up with these lead negativites.

I must be a lead Myth buster LOL!!
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/07/14 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: quarterliter
Why not at least check the valves? That may be reckless


This bike is not notoriously a valve eater, and I have company at these mileage levels with no check, In addition not being dependant on unleaded fuel wear, and being to lazy to wash the bike, I wouldn't want to open the valve cover, without its first washing.

That's the great thing about a full faired bike, just baby wipe the fairings and its good enough. Ive never actually washed the bike with a hose, sometimes I get in a real heavy clean rain on the interstate, and that helps. I do baby wipe stuff here and there.

I learned back in my offoad days, riding for 2 hours and washing for 2 really sucks, just let the mud dry and the next time you ride it all falls off. So As I aged about the only time I put a hose to a bike, was when I was going to tear into the motor.

But yeah it could be wreckless, like going to the dentist till you have good reason, or a symptom.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/08/14 07:39 AM

Back when you were running full race lead, what did your uoa's show, about 700 to 800 ppm of lead?

That's a lot of lead, and probably on 10 gallon or less of fuel. Imagine how much lead ppm would be if over a few thousand miles at full strength. Id say the ppm would be in the several thousands ppm wise( definitely that level could have deposit issues. But on a low routine mixture Ive seen very nice results providing excellent decarbonization with some lubrication benefit.
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/08/14 08:48 AM

highest is 651
most uoas in the 300-400 range.

try on 2-3gal of fuel

yes i totally agree that lead is fantastic for the valves...maybe not so much for me sniffing the tailpipe, but its all good!

yes when i ran c12 or howell 002 (i had a 35gal drum) i ran it 100%
no mix.
Posted by: CentAmDL650

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/08/14 08:10 PM

Do these still have gear driven cams? I recall some saying the older VFR models (80s) were some of the fastest to shear their oil out of grade. Is that the reasoning for selecting ester-based Redline (likely without VII's), because it won't shear?

And I agree on the wear levels - just outstanding for a hard-ridden tracked bike with that kind of mileage.
Posted by: LotI

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/08/14 09:30 PM

Originally Posted By: CentAmDL650
Do these still have gear driven cams? I recall some saying the older VFR models (80s) were some of the fastest to shear their oil out of grade. Is that the reasoning for selecting ester-based Redline (likely without VII's), because it won't shear?

And I agree on the wear levels - just outstanding for a hard-ridden tracked bike with that kind of mileage.

Chains from '02 on with the VTEC...I do miss the gear whine frown
Posted by: 29662

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/14/14 03:30 PM

Thanks for posting the uoa. I hope my new (to me) 2003 vfr800 wears that well. I've got her filled with t6 and 2 ozs of redline break in additive, and a wix filter.
Posted by: quarterliter

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/15/14 05:20 PM

Why the break in additive?
Posted by: 29662

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/15/14 11:36 PM

It brings up the zddp levels, makes for much smoother shifting as well as for added protection. A 16oz bottle will last for quite some time. I wouldn't use it in a bike that burns oil, because of added cylinder deposits, but mine doesn't burn any, so no problems there.

If you look at some of the better more expensive bike specific oils they usually have anywhere from 1700 ppm(mobil1) to 22-2400 ppm zinc levels(redline). I typically shoot for 1500-1700 ppm. works great.
Posted by: LotI

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/18/14 08:13 AM

Originally Posted By: 29662
Thanks for posting the uoa. I hope my new (to me) 2003 vfr800 wears that well. I've got her filled with t6 and 2 ozs of redline break in additive, and a wix filter.

Does the bike still have a cat? Although there is no downstream o2 sensor like cars, I would be concerned about its health.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/18/14 03:05 PM

Yeah it has a cat and o2 sensors, zero cat issues, no black spooge out the exhaust.

I was concerned about the cat when the bike was new ( but valve longevity and decarbonization more so) so I guine pigged anyway, not having tested that fuel on a catted bike, but 100,000 mile later, no prob. Im pretty sure I can still pass a cat inspection, of course Id have to run several tanks of untreated fuel.

Now if you tried to run a full mixture, there near 5 grams of lead per gal, and That would cause 02 errors or plug up a cat. But I only use about a cup to 2 cups per tank, and it runs completely through the motor, you can see the grey lead oxides with bare metal underneath no spooge out the pipe and no carbon.

OH, I realized you talking about the redline additive, to me Id be concerned about to much zddp and plating or adhering to places that you don't want it, but as long as the bike isn't burning oil, it shouldn't bother the cat IMO. Course burning oil or running to rich kills far more cats, than anything else. Carbon blockage is their enemy.
Posted by: 29662

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/19/14 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By: LotI
Originally Posted By: 29662
Thanks for posting the uoa. I hope my new (to me) 2003 vfr800 wears that well. I've got her filled with t6 and 2 ozs of redline break in additive, and a wix filter.

Does the bike still have a cat? Although there is no downstream o2 sensor like cars, I would be concerned about its health.


It does have a cat. But it doesn't burn any appreciable amount of oil so that shouldn't make a difference to the cat. Other MC specific oil have the same amount of ZDDP or higher so I'm not particularly worried. Besides if the cat does go it will be a good excuse to put in a "new" exhaust system.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/22/14 07:49 AM

Some may be wondering why the lead count jumped with redline over the other 2 uoa's.

On the early uoa's there was a lot of distance riding being done, so lead injections were fewer, missing a tank or two in between.

I'll do another uoa on this Valvoline 10w40 and if the lead count is not in the same area, then that would suggest the redline is eating lead film off of parts.
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/22/14 09:35 AM

what would you deem to be within the same area?
just curious.
as i have seen lead levels vary greatly even when using 100% of the same exact fuel from the same exact barrel and within 30min of the same amount of motor run time.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/22/14 08:32 PM

well I would expect to see over 100 to be in the same range. If I saw something like 50 or 20 average as previous 2 uoa's, that would be suspect. I guess you would have to look at it percentage wise to be in a range. I think that you mentioned 350 or 400 average on 2 to 3 gals fuel, with a high of 650, that's 50% or so variance range.

Im just reasoning the 500% jump, most of it via what I mentioned about missing injections compared to nowadays. But if I saw a real significant drop with another UOA, then Im thinking redline might have been seeking out the lead. The thought also stems from Redline being one of the strongest cleaning oils on the market.

I'll have to do another Uoa to quelch that question.
Posted by: CentAmDL650

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/23/14 07:34 PM

So how would you know if your bearings were getting ate up - as opposed to just getting leaded fuel dilution from blowby? Wouldn't you likely have a solution masking a potential problem on a UOA especially if you were cranking on the revs? Can bearing wear be attributed to a rise in some other elements in a UOA that also track with bearing wear (like copper, tin, aluminum, indium, gallium, etc)?

And I thought for trackers UCL's have replaced leaded gas for keeping your valves from eroding the seats. Don't some of the racers use TC-W3 or more exotic 2-cycle pre-mixes for UCL? Or are these really not so longetivity-oriented, maybe they're O2 sensor/ cat killers so only a consideration with dedicated racers? I've tried MMO and now Motul power jet, but I'm not pushing it like you, just looking at it from a commuter/ sport tourer point of view.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/24/14 02:32 PM

Actually the first uoa at 20 ppm lead, Blackstone was very concerned about the (lead), till they found out leaded race fuel was being used.

How do I know lead bearings are not being eaten, well, the running condition is mint and smooth, no degrade since new that I can tell. I'll see how it looks at 200,000 miles.

Im more wondering if the redline was cleaning more at the lead than a typical oil would, its probably not and all related to the increase in Lead injections(which is a known factor to cause an increase), but I'll run another uao just to see with this valvoline 10w40 shows in the same range.
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/27/14 08:13 AM

an IF someone else has run the same oil for the same distance (possibly even in the same motor) and come up with zero lead, then its at least not the oil. same if someone has run redline and seen lead, but not used leaded fuel. which is prolly easier to find.
the stoners have a hard time reading the info you put on the data sheet you send in. and by reading i mean comphrehension. leaded fuel usually confuses them and most on here, which is why i stopped posting my results.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/27/14 06:25 PM

When it comes to running 2 stroke oil in four strokes and momo, that's all snake oil to me, Id need to see some results internally. The first time I ever used leaded race fuel was on a Dual sport. It had a screen in the muffler that required cleaning every 11,000 miles to decarbon, and it was pretty carboned. 1/2 a tank of leaded race fuel, not only cleaned that screen completely , it decarboned the entire exhaust system. Yeah I was shocked, and I've never seen any snake oil product that can do that , especially 2 stroke oil in any motor.

The lead when it combusts it creates little snowflakes, these flakes swirl and decarbon everything, valves piston head, spark plugs ect, this also gives a powered cushion to valves. I think someone mentioned hardened valve seats. Hardened valve seats may have aided softer valve seat wear, but did nothing for motorcycle valve recession, it still abundantly exists across the board.

If you've ever shot lead bullets, they leave a lubricative film in the rifle bore, course sometimes its more than you want, but the point is, lead will leave that lubricative film on motor parts too.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/27/14 07:23 PM

In blackstones defense, the first time they just didn't know about the fuel, cause I didn't tell them, I did the second run, cause they seemed kind of frantic, on the first one, and they relaxed completely after that. you notice they didn't even blink at the 183 after knowing.

It really sounded like I guy the same guy doing the uoa, from years back.





Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/27/14 07:25 PM

Do you still have your vfr, is that what your testing the 0w40 in?
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/28/14 08:27 AM

i still have my 04 vfr800 but no the 0w40 is being tested in the yz250f mixmasterofdoom

neither are getting ridden much as i have gone back to swimming and winning national championships at it vs being a soso local harescramble racer and until this last week was too dusty to ride offroad anywhere around here.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/28/14 12:17 PM

All the free areas for offroad is all but gone isn't it?

I sold my cr500 back in 2000, I moved to florida for a year in 2004, they had a lot of forest area that could be ridden, no cactus, no thorns, and you could ride in the rain cause, no mud it was all sand, it was great for a dual sport, cause the roads alone were limited..
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 05/28/14 01:24 PM

even most of the pay places have closed.
Posted by: 29662

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 06/01/14 01:34 AM

Originally Posted By: sunruh
i still have my 04 vfr800 but no the 0w40 is being tested in the yz250f mixmasterofdoom

neither are getting ridden much as i have gone back to swimming and winning national championships at it vs being a soso local harescramble racer and until this last week was too dusty to ride offroad anywhere around here.


Out of curiosity Sunruh, what ARE you running in your vfr800. I've got an '03; love that exhaust growl.
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 06/02/14 09:59 AM

right now its the dealership fill of hondaline gn 10w40
or whatever that is.
i've ridden so little that it still looks new in the sight glass window. and the miles says, yes it should be still new.
Posted by: 29662

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 06/02/14 12:45 PM

Have you ever done any UOA'S on the viffer? Just curious.
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 06/02/14 01:57 PM

nope havent ridden it enough...sad...very sad
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 06/22/14 07:52 AM

Originally Posted By: sunruh
right now its the dealership fill of hondaline gn 10w40
or whatever that is.
i've ridden so little that it still looks new in the sight glass window. and the miles says, yes it should be still new.


Are you selling the bike, or getting something repaired?
Posted by: sunruh

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 06/23/14 08:06 AM

ha ha are you kidding? no way!

riding is part of my life.

i learned to ride a motorcycle before i learned to ride a bicycle.
Posted by: Mackelroy

Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 - 07/25/14 07:41 PM

Im closing in on 2500 mile mark with Valvoline mc oil, Im only running another uoa to see if my lead count is the same general area, Im expecting it to be.

I ran a 200 mile flush with Supertech 15w40, before installing the Valvoline.