2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles

Posted by: Donald

2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 05:47 PM

The continuing saga of my reman 4.0 engine. The engine runs fine, decent mileage, no smoke.

Polaris flagged the lead as abnormal (orange) and the oxidation critical (red).

(first to last)

Html:
Test#	1	2	3	4	5
Mileage	9622	5184	5606	5334	5679					
Iron 	146	43	26	28	55   
Chrom 	4	1	1	1	1   
Nickel	1	0	0	0	0   
Alum 	4	1	1	1	2   
Copper  23	12	16	20	24
Lead    15	8	4	3	47 
Tin     2	1	1	1	2
Cadmi   0	0	0	0	0	
Silv    0	0	0	0	0 
Vanad   0	0	0	0	0
Silicon 25	12	13	8	12 
Sodiu   18	6	6	9	15 
Potas   6	1	5	0	0 
Titan   0	1	0	0	0 
Moly    61	58	67	62      61
Antim   1	0	0	1	0 
Mang    2	0	0	0	0 
Lith    0	0	0	0	0
Boron   280	163	30	21	23	
Magn  	14	14	892	1041	1049	
Calc  	3611	2651	1008	814	737
Bari   	0	0	0	0	0
Phos	772	723	868	942	921  
Zinc  	923	864	1103	1189	1143
Fuel	<1	<1	2.2	2.0	<1
Soot	<.1	<.1	<.1	<.1	<.1
Water	<.1	<.1	<.1	<.1	<.1
V@100C	11.1	10.2	12.9	13.3	13.5
TBN   	3.4	4.47	4.22	NES	4.13	
Oxi    	20	25	17	NES	30
Nit     16	12	13	NES	14  


Test#1 PU
Test#2 PU
Test#3 T6
Test#4 T6
Test#5 T6



Obviously the sharp jump in lead is a concern. Copper + lead = bearing failure.

Current change is PP (old formulation).


Posted by: actionstan

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 06:01 PM

If its a reman, does it have a warranty? If so I might bring it up with the shop that did it/company that supplied the engine, just to see what they say. Those seem like high/inconsistent numbers, I would personally be a little worried.
Posted by: NHGUY

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 06:06 PM

Factory rebuilt? Marshall engine?
Posted by: Donald

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 06:07 PM

The reman engine has almost 60K miles on it. Way past the warranty I was given.

Should I consider any action? Even if I knew which bearing was failing what would I do?
Posted by: Kuato

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 06:26 PM

Tough question, what to do....T6 should be giving great wear but there's obviously something going on within the engine. You could always try replacing the bearings and see what happens.

Shot in the dark? I'd consider calling the reman company, and find out the specifications on the rebuild to insure they used the right sized bearings; if they were too thick, making the clearances too tight, then you might expect heavy wear, at least until they were back to "normal" clearances.
Posted by: 901Memphis

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 06:36 PM

Switch to a 10w30 conventional like PYB and see that lead drop.
Posted by: actionstan

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Tough question, what to do....T6 should be giving great wear but there's obviously something going on within the engine. You could always try replacing the bearings and see what happens.

Shot in the dark? I'd consider calling the reman company, and find out the specifications on the rebuild to insure they used the right sized bearings; if they were too thick, making the clearances too tight, then you might expect heavy wear, at least until they were back to "normal" clearances.


If the bearings go back to "normal clearances" wouldn't they at that point be worn, along with the crank, and highly scuffed? I think that would then cause quicker wear, and eventually knocking because loss of oil pressure. The bearing and crank surfaces need to remain smooth.. if clearances were too tight.. I don't think this would be possible.
Posted by: Chris142

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 08:02 PM

bump it up to 15w40.lets see what that does
Posted by: Eddie

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 08:08 PM

Over reacting to one OCI. Check again after a 5-6K OCI.
Posted by: Donald

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Switch to a 10w30 conventional like PYB and see that lead drop.


This is the 3rd oil change with T6 and this is the first oil change where the lead really shot up.
Posted by: Donald

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Tough question, what to do....T6 should be giving great wear but there's obviously something going on within the engine. You could always try replacing the bearings and see what happens.

Shot in the dark? I'd consider calling the reman company, and find out the specifications on the rebuild to insure they used the right sized bearings; if they were too thick, making the clearances too tight, then you might expect heavy wear, at least until they were back to "normal" clearances.


This was a reman not a rebuild. They would have turned the crank and used the proper bearings for a machined crank.
Posted by: Donald

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 08:39 PM

So if the bearings get loose don't they start squirting more oil on the cylinder walls than the oil rings can handle.

Maybe thats only the rod bearings and a main bearing has the problem.
Posted by: Donald

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/09/14 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Factory rebuilt? Marshall engine?


Yes a Marshall reman.
Posted by: dlundblad

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/10/14 08:01 AM

Sorry to see you haven't gotten this issue straightened out Donald. Will the engine manufacturer do anything about this? 60,000 miles is such a shame.

I second the 15w40 trial run, but either way I don't think any oil will make much of a difference.
Posted by: Donald

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/10/14 08:13 AM

So can one assume its just one bearing? How easy would it be to find that bearing? If its a rod or main bearing could just the bearing be replaced or could the crankshaft have an issue which would require machining.
Posted by: bigt61

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/10/14 09:54 AM

A bearing is likely going, no oil will fix it, but a quality synthetic will buy you more time before it becomes catastrophic. Probably some dirt got in during the reman and it's embedded in a bearing and it's just quietly been munching for 60k. If you're gentle, it should start making noise when it gets bad. How many more miles are you trying to go? If it's just a few more years, I'd let it eat. If you need it to last 5 years or longer, I'd have somebody pull the oil pan and find the culprit...or culprits? Slap some bearings, emery the crank, drive it easy into the sunset.
Posted by: Donald

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/10/14 11:17 AM

I remembered that for this entire OCI I added Auto-Rx. The people at Auto-Rx say its possible the Auto-Rx is loosening some hardened oil deposits and that is why the oxidation is high. Its also possible the hardened oil deposits contain wear metals like lead (from break-in) that are coming out with the hardened oil deposits.
Posted by: Donald

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/10/14 11:23 AM

Originally Posted By: bigt61
A bearing is likely going, no oil will fix it, but a quality synthetic will buy you more time before it becomes catastrophic. Probably some dirt got in during the reman and it's embedded in a bearing and it's just quietly been munching for 60k. If you're gentle, it should start making noise when it gets bad. How many more miles are you trying to go? If it's just a few more years, I'd let it eat. If you need it to last 5 years or longer, I'd have somebody pull the oil pan and find the culprit...or culprits? Slap some bearings, emery the crank, drive it easy into the sunset.


The engine has 60K and the vehicle has 155K. I would like to get 225K on it before I dump it. After that I am not sure the transmission would be reliable.

Wouldn't I have to drop the crankshaft to replace a main? I can only get to the bottom section of the bearing by removing a bearing cap.

The Jeep is in very good shape. CarWell every year. No plowing or off roading. No kids to spill inside. Amsoil fluids in everything but engine.
Posted by: Kuato

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/10/14 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Donald
I remembered that for this entire OCI I added Auto-Rx. The people at Auto-Rx say its possible the Auto-Rx is loosening some hardened oil deposits and that is why the oxidation is high. Its also possible the hardened oil deposits contain wear metals like lead (from break-in) that are coming out with the hardened oil deposits.


Possibly true, so maybe a couple of OCIs in a row without any treatment. (and thanks for the explanations above)
Posted by: dustyroads

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/10/14 12:40 PM

The iron doubled, too. What happened there? Any relation to whatever is going on with the copper/lead spike?
Posted by: dustyroads

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/10/14 12:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Donald
I remembered that for this entire OCI I added Auto-Rx. The people at Auto-Rx say its possible the Auto-Rx is loosening some hardened oil deposits and that is why the oxidation is high. Its also possible the hardened oil deposits contain wear metals like lead (from break-in) that are coming out with the hardened oil deposits.


Maybe that's it.
Posted by: KCJeep

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/16/14 07:43 PM

Well it was trending down and you added RX now it's back up. Could be something the RX did or could be the RX itself who really knows what's in it?

If it's running great I'm not ready to push the panic button this engine has been throwing high numbers it's whole life.
Posted by: yvon_la

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/17/14 11:48 AM

Full calcium formulation isnt good for 10000 miles! You probably added oil wich would explain the tbn
Posted by: Merkava_4

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/17/14 09:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Donald
I remembered that for this entire OCI I added Auto-Rx.


I think that's your problem right there. That would explain the iron shooting up too.
Posted by: Donald

Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles - 06/21/14 07:13 AM

Originally Posted By: yvon_la
Full calcium formulation isnt good for 10000 miles! You probably added oil wich would explain the tbn


T6 has gone 18K miles on my Cummins diesel with an excellent UOA, so I would have to disagree with your comment. No oil added that I remember.