permatex instead of actual gasket?

Posted by: hardcore302

permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/11/11 05:49 PM

As you might have read, I'm having a hard time finding a gasket for my trans pan.

Would it be possible to use some sort of liquid gasket maker instead of the gasket itself? Does permatex make something like that? Would you advise it?

Thanks!
Posted by: beast3300

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/11/11 06:04 PM

This is how Chrysler and most imports seal pans. What are you working on?
Posted by: mkIIIman089

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/11/11 06:04 PM

From a sealing perspective it'll probably work very well, the reason they probably don't do it from the factory (like many engine oil pans) is for ease or maintenance. You'll have to thoroughly clean and dry the surface every time the filters are serviced; which can be tricky if its slowly but steadily dripping ATF.

Looks like they did recently release a FIPG specifically for this.
http://www.permatex.com/products/Automot...RTV_Sealant.htm
Posted by: eljefino

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/11/11 06:08 PM

I read some conflicting advice eg do not use RTV as it breaks loose and clogs up valve bodies and makes a mess. If I were I'd go top shelf, permatex ultra black for example, and try for perfect conditions: super clean mating surfaces, 72 degrees, humid, etc.
Posted by: dave123

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/11/11 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
As you might have read, I'm having a hard time finding a gasket for my trans pan.

Would it be possible to use some sort of liquid gasket maker instead of the gasket itself? Does permatex make something like that? Would you advise it?

Thanks!
Permatex Right Stuff is all you need.

I'll second Right Stuff. Just be aware it's bit pricey and has short shelf life once you use some of it. At least mine did
Posted by: qdeezie

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/11/11 06:33 PM

In those situations where I use RTV as the gasket, for instance a differential, I clean the diff cover off and apply the RTV and let it sit overnight so it can cure then install it. I'm sure the same method would work for a trans pan with minimal worries about it clogging the filter or leaking.
Posted by: eljefino

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/11/11 07:08 PM

^ I've heard you should install it but leave the bolts loose and torque them the next day.
Posted by: hardcore302

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/11/11 07:21 PM

Thanks
Posted by: The_Eric

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/11/11 10:54 PM

Originally Posted By: eljefino
^ I've heard you should install it but leave the bolts loose and torque them the next day.


On the back of their Ultra" series RTV tubes, it says to apply, assemble, snug bolts till the RTV just barely squeezes out, then wait an hour an torque to spec.
Posted by: deeter16317

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/12/11 05:02 AM

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I read some conflicting advice eg do not use RTV as it breaks loose and clogs up valve bodies and makes a mess.



Seems odd to me when any particle in the pan would need to first pass through the filter?

I'd be more concerned about the nightmare the next servicing would bring just trying to A) get the pan loose, and B) clean the two mating surfaces.
Posted by: SteveSRT8

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/12/11 05:52 AM

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
As you might have read, I'm having a hard time finding a gasket for my trans pan.

Would it be possible to use some sort of liquid gasket maker instead of the gasket itself? Does permatex make something like that? Would you advise it?

Thanks!
Originally Posted By: beast3300
This is how Chrysler and most imports seal pans. What are you working on?


Gee, that's funny. I own a Chrysler and it has a permanent gasket!

And yes, you can use silicone stuff to make one. We've done this to off roaders when the mating surfaces were dinged up and a gasket would not seal.

Follow directions closely, and be prepared for a bad time getting it off in the future!
Posted by: rslifkin

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/12/11 09:34 AM

My Chrysler tranny has a gasket too. I see no reason why RTV wouldn't work, however, although it could be a PITA to remove.
Posted by: mechtech2

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/12/11 04:03 PM

When you say Permatex, I think of #1 and #2, the common Permatex sealers.
But I think you are referring to Silicone RTV sealers in general.
[I know Permatex makes versions of RTV, also]

Permatex #1 and #2 are not good for sealing a trans pan without a gasket. A high quality RTV will work great, but you have to clean the surface really well and dry it. This can be tough because of ATF running down a it cures. But properly done, it will work great. GM's "Right STuff' sets faster and works well in oil. it is a good option.
Posted by: 97TJ

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/13/11 03:40 PM

hi all


the key to the rtv is how it is applied, in a thin consistent bead, let dry at least 15-20 min to form skin, torque down and do not retighten. also is cleanliness of surface. I use it on all gasket except head, of course and trans, for that i found compisite rubber/steel reuasble for my jeep.
Posted by: doitmyself

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/13/11 08:10 PM

The Chrysler 4 speed tranny is especially difficult to seal with RTV because it drips forever down the back gasket surface. Many people don't know that Chrysler has a reusable steel/rubber gasket for the the 4 speed tranny if one wants to avoid the RTV challenge.

None the less, 4 speed trannies come from the factory sealed with only RTV (easy when the tranny has seen no fluid yet). And, Chrysler techs. swear that RTV is THE only way, in spite of aftermarket gasket availability.

Chrysler has their own VERY highly regarded RTV "guaranteed" not to leak.

At least 3 different ways have been discussed above on RTV use. Here is Chrysler's 4th. way:

"The MoparŪ Silicone Rubber Adhesive Sealant gasket material or equivalent should be applied in a continuous bead approximately 3 mm (0.120 in.) in diameter. All mounting holes must be circled. Uncured sealant may be removed with a shop towels. Components should be torqued in place while the sealant is still wet to the touch (within 10 minutes) The usage of a locating dowel is recommended during assembly to prevent smearing of material off location."

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC OF THE OTHER METHODS MENTIONED ABOVE...SKINNING? DELAYED TORQUE? You want the RTV to glue/seal to the metal, correct?
Posted by: mechtech2

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/13/11 09:26 PM

I have often heard people letting the RTV set or skin over for 10 minutes or so.
But this works best when the RTV is first applied to BOTH surfaces.

I prefer wet assembly - I want good adhesion.
Posted by: hardcore302

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/13/11 09:43 PM

i will see what the trans shop wants to do. thanks guys! i appreciate it!
Posted by: pottymouth

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/13/11 09:48 PM

My Chrysler uses RTV. I used Permatex Ultra Black RTV with zero leaks. I applied it to the pan only and let it sit for about 15 minutes before installng the pan. You only need a 1/8" bead. I bet I spent more time cleaning both surfaces than any other part of the job.

It works well as a gasket, but as has already been said it is a serious pain to remove the pan for the next change. I would suggest finding the gasket somewhere, but if you do go with RTV it would be wise to install a drain plug in the pan before you reinstall it. It can make a big mess otherwise. As you attempr to pry the pan away, the RTV has a nasty habit of suddenly letting go and you then slosh trans fluid all over yourself. Less fun than it sounds. Emptying the pan first will help you avoid the mess.
Posted by: tom slick

Re: permatex instead of actual gasket? - 01/15/11 11:50 PM

You guys need to read the package:

Permatex recommends immediate assembly, specifically stating "Assemble parts immediately while silicone is still wet." None state to leave open for any period of time or allow them to "skin".

Depending on the product they recommend different processes:

for HI-Temp, Sensor-Safe Blue, Ultra Black, Ultra Blue RTV Silicone Gasket;
Finger tighten flange only until material begins to seep
out the sides of the flange.
Allow to set for at least two hours and re-torque at
lease one quarter to one half turn.
For best results, allow to cure overnight

for Ultra Copper RTV Silicone Gasket and Ultra Grey Gasket Maker;

Assemble parts immediately while silicone is still wet.
Secure or tighten to recommended torque specs.
Re-torque will not be necessary after the product has
cured.

Right Stuff has slightly different instructions;

Assemble parts within 5 minutes while The Right Stuff
is still wet. Secure or tighten to recommended torque
specs.
Re-torque will not be necessary after the product has
cured.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers.htm

They claim the right stuff has no cure time and can be put into service immediately.