Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A

Posted by: wwillson

Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 04:34 PM

All,

Pennzoil has returned the answers to the Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology questions we submitted. You can find them here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/pennzoil-q-a/

Thanks,

Wayne
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 04:57 PM

Interesting read.
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks.
So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.
Posted by: demarpaint

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 05:01 PM

It appears early on they implied to have a 0W30, then later said they didn't.
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It appears early on they implied to have a 0W30, then later said they didn't.


Yeah. Here they've said categorically that there won't be a 0w-30. Too bad.
Once I get through my stash looks like I'll be getting more American jugs of M1.
Looks like crow for supper,tig will be smiling.
Posted by: Quattro Pete

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 05:07 PM

Just mix some 0w-20 with some 0w-40. smile
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just mix some 0w-20 with some 0w-40. smile


Yep.
Caterham would be proud.
Posted by: HTSS_TR

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just mix some 0w-20 with some 0w-40. smile

More 0W20 if a thin 0W30 is desired, more 0W40 to get a thick 0W30. smile
Posted by: redhat

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 05:53 PM

While I love this new oil hype and get giddy, I'll probably try it, but honestly... after my stash is over, I'll probably just go back to M1.
Posted by: 147_Grain

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 06:08 PM

Plan on using the Caterham Blend in the future depending on who makes the best 0W-20 and 0W-40 (Mobil or Pennzoil).
Posted by: Volv04Life

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It appears early on they implied to have a 0W30, then later said they didn't.


Noticed that as well.
Posted by: Eddie

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 07:37 PM

And if the CEO decides to have a 0w30 tomorrow then you will get it down the road.
Posted by: laserred96gt

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 07:54 PM

So they say shelf life is 4 years, I still have 25 quarts of PP that I got at oreilys clearance that are dated 2011, I better start using them up first. I thought shelf life would be longer than 4 years, maybe this STASH thing isn't too good of an idea.
Posted by: dkryan

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 08:37 PM

Well, some BITOGers may not like their answers, but I give SOPUS two thumbs up for producing the GTL- based lineup and making it available (eventually) to us oil obsessed car geeks.

And the same two thumbs up for allowing us to submit questions about their new product(s).
Posted by: gregk24

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 08:53 PM

Cant wait to see a VOA of the new PP 0w20 and PUP 0w20.
Posted by: Gabe

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 09:11 PM

I really appreciate Pennzoil taking the time to answer these questions.
Posted by: 147_Grain

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/08/14 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Cant wait to see a VOA of the new PP 0w20 and PUP 0w20.


+1

Grateful that Pennzoil is making an effort to get the info out ahead of their full product line being available on the shelves. Seems they are using this fine Forum for advertising as well.
Posted by: SF0059

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/09/14 09:28 AM

A little bummed out that the 0w-20 VI isn't higher. Getting closer to 200 would have made it more competitive with OEM offerings.
Posted by: johnachak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/09/14 09:31 AM

Wow, thank you for going through the trouble to share this with us. I really appreciate it.
Posted by: bigt61

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/09/14 10:28 AM

Kudos to SOPUS for going above and beyond. My wallet will show them some love in the future.
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/10/14 02:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?
Posted by: NMBurb02

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/10/14 11:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?

Check out the answer to question four under GTL/Testing. They state that the PurePlus base stock is Group III and reiterate that there is no API classification of Group III+ base stocks. PurePlus is Pennzoil's marketing term for their GTL base stock. Fancy names and slogans are par for the course in motor oil marketing, just like M1's "Advanced full synthetic", Castrol's "SPT" (Syntec Power Technology), Amsoil's "The First in Synthetics", and Kendall's "Liquid Titanium". When you see the TM mark, you know you are dealing with a trademarked name for a product rather than a description of its governing body specifications.
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/10/14 11:24 PM

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
Check out the answer to question four under GTL/Testing. They state that the PurePlus base stock is Group III and reiterate that there is no API classification of Group III+ base stocks. PurePlus is Pennzoil's marketing term for their GTL base stock. Fancy names and slogans are par for the course in motor oil marketing....

That was the point. We all realize it's marketing, and they're doing the same thing. Sometimes, these Q&A's need a proof reader to ensure that answers don't peg the baloney meter.

I don't give a hoot about fancy slogans or proprietary names for base stocks. Get the product on the shelves, widely and reliably and at a good price.
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 04:53 AM

Originally Posted By: laserred96gt
So they say shelf life is 4 years, I still have 25 quarts of PP that I got at oreilys clearance that are dated 2011, I better start using them up first. I thought shelf life would be longer than 4 years, maybe this STASH thing isn't too good of an idea.


And Mobil says 5 years even opened so long as capped and cool. Another + for Mobil.

And anyway, what happens? Does the liquid reverse itself into gas? LTG?
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 04:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?


Not only do they call it plus, they say it is better than base stocks hydro cracked from dino.

So they certainly seem to believe there are different classes of base oils within a group.
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 05:31 AM

And that's certainly fair. But, they stumble into the same marketing speak. In comparison, look at Petro-Canada's site. They're quite proud (and justifiably so) about their Group III base stock. They'd certainly be entitled to call it a Group III+, but don't bother. They compare their method to "normal" Group III methods, and were touting theirs as clear (water white I believe is their term) ages ago.

Pennzoil, too, has every reason to be proud of their base stocks. But, they use marketing speak the same as anyone else.
Posted by: bluesubie

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 07:57 AM

Several people on this forum that are in the industry have always said that Group II/III+ was just marketing.

Now you guys are saying that Pennzoil is inferring that these oils are Group III+ because they call them PurePlus? That's funny. No oil company that sponsors BITOG is ever allowed to come up with marketing slogans again. LOL

-Dennis
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 10:49 AM

Overall I was disappointed with the answers.

Eg they were asked if Platinum and Ultra used GTL already. The answer was given for Platinum only and gave a date of "2013" which is a bit vague.

There was an answer that Noack of Platinum is below 10% when I think there are already official TDS that show higher.

The Ultra Euro 5w40 is being rebranded as Platinum while the 0w40 SRT will be Ultra Platinum. Yet they say Ultra Platinum is better than Platinum.

In their complete list they said all 3 Euro oils would be Platinum and have 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40. Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.

I do like that they have settled into the idea that their oils are about keeping your engine clean, that the base oil helps with this and the Ultra keeps things 65% cleaner compared to Platinum 40% cleaner. So we have a major manufacturer saying that synthetic over the same interval keeps things cleaner and modern engines with turbos and DI can benefit.
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 10:59 AM

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.

Eg they were asked if Platinum and Ultra used GTL already. The answer was given for Platinum only and gave a date of "2013" which is a bit vague.

There was an answer that Noack of Platinum is below 10% when I think there are already official TDS that show higher.

The Ultra Euro 5w40 is being rebranded as Platinum while the 0w40 SRT will be Ultra Platinum. Yet they say Ultra Platinum is better than Platinum.

In their complete list they said all 3 Euro oils would be Platinum and have 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40. Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.

I do like that they have settled into the idea that their oils are about keeping your engine clean, that the base oil helps with this and the Ultra keeps things 65% cleaner compared to Platinum 40% cleaner. So we have a major manufacturer saying that synthetic over the same interval keeps things cleaner and modern engines with turbos and DI can benefit.


I rarely agree with you however I do here.
The answers given were standard form answers to questions that repeated themselves and got a repeated answer.
On paper it looks as though pennzoil took a step backwards however once we start getting some data,from members with trending used oil analysis we'll see just how well tbn/tan hold up and see just how many miles the products will truly go
Posted by: A_Harman

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 11:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just mix some 0w-20 with some 0w-40. smile


Yeah, that occurred to me.

But what is the problem with 0w30 that makes it so hard to produce an oil with significantly higher VI and lower KV40 than many 5w30's? Look at Mobil's 0w30; it has lower VI than both their 0w20 AFE and 0w40 EF, and its 40C viscosity is actually higher than M1 5w30. Redline's 0w30 also goes about the same way; its VI is lower than the 0w20 and 0w40 that are supposed to be its companions.
Posted by: A_Harman

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 11:45 AM

They also said in multiple instances that they will be migrating GTL base oils to their HDEO's. I'll be looking forward to that.

It's also interesting that the current RT6 has no GTL content.
Posted by: A_Harman

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 12:16 PM

There's going to be a 5w50 Platinum. That should make the Ford Mustang Boss guys happy.
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 12:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.

Eg they were asked if Platinum and Ultra used GTL already. The answer was given for Platinum only and gave a date of "2013" which is a bit vague.

There was an answer that Noack of Platinum is below 10% when I think there are already official TDS that show higher.

The Ultra Euro 5w40 is being rebranded as Platinum while the 0w40 SRT will be Ultra Platinum. Yet they say Ultra Platinum is better than Platinum.

In their complete list they said all 3 Euro oils would be Platinum and have 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40. Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.

I do like that they have settled into the idea that their oils are about keeping your engine clean, that the base oil helps with this and the Ultra keeps things 65% cleaner compared to Platinum 40% cleaner. So we have a major manufacturer saying that synthetic over the same interval keeps things cleaner and modern engines with turbos and DI can benefit.


I rarely agree with you however I do here.
The answers given were standard form answers to questions that repeated themselves and got a repeated answer.
On paper it looks as though pennzoil took a step backwards however once we start getting some data,from members with trending used oil analysis we'll see just how well tbn/tan hold up and see just how many miles the products will truly go


I'm so honored!

The specs don't disappoint me as much as they do others. Sure, if VI had been higher and Noack lower, it would have made for a more enthusiastic purchase and more anticipation amongst oil nerds, but would you have noticed a real improvement or would it really have been a feel good factor?

I think you need to find the real testing results that are applicable for you in order to optimize oil choice. It seems that all oils that meet manufacturer specs will ensure engine longevity, so after that it's about extending oci and what your butt dino prefers.
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 01:03 PM

I would add that the way the questions have been answered reflects a corporation who feels it is a good idea to engage in "social media" vs a corporation that needs to make it part if their strategy. Someone in marketing decided this was a good idea but the reality is that BITOG is not the focus of Pennzoil's marketing and answering our questions with the technical explanations that we deserve isn't something that they have time for.

However, contrast that with Mobil 1's website where they answer customer questions directly and in a very straightforward manner with a good level of technical knowledge. Being straightforward is more likely to win you business and clearly many car owners ask oil questions so there is an interest level that does not require a BITOG level of obsession.
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 01:17 PM

Lastly, one of the reasons the Ultra GTL question interests me is that I like the 5w40 Euro in my Mercedes but don't know if it is GTL or not. If the new Platinum Euro 5w40 is the same as what I have, I would buy more (if they made it available and competitive in price to M1 0w40 and now Castrol 0w40).

Without the answers, I just don't know so picked up Castrol 0w40 on special and will see if that becomes my preferred Euro oil for the Mercedes.
Posted by: Quattro Pete

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Lastly, one of the reasons the Ultra GTL question interests me is that I like the 5w40 Euro in my Mercedes but don't know if it is GTL or not.

Does it really matter to your Mercedes if it's GTL or not? It's certainly some very stable base oil if it has Noack of 6.8%, GTL or not.

BTW, I got it for $3/qt on a recent PepBoys sale. If you're patient, some kind of a sale will eventually come around.
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 01:54 PM

No of course not. Once the spec is met, it's all about the butt dino.
Posted by: MotorsportsX

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 02:53 PM

well... looks like im going to stock up on ultra Euro... though.. i think lately i do have faith in Pennzoil to make a "better" product.
Posted by: Trav

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?


Someone doesn't have their act together. I don't know how else to put it.
To quote Mobils own documentation from the Mobil link in this thread..
Originally Posted By: Mobil
We now have the very high quality Group III+ base stock,


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...g_to_GTL#UNREAD

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=695007

If someone can get this wrong what else is wrong? Are the new PDS for PP and PU also wrong?
What i would like to know is who in hades is really answering these Q&A.
IMHO there is nothing worse than incompetence and it sure seems someone isn't up to snuff either at Pennzoil or Mobil.

Is Pennzoil claiming there is no such thing as Group III+ or someone answering the questions that is clueless?
The question remains is there such a thing as Group III+ or not?
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks. So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.

Of course, that's technically true. But, look at their answer to question 8, notably the last sentence:

"Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic products use 100% PurePlus Base Oils."

There is no such thing as a "+" base stock, but a "plus" base stock exists?


Someone doesn't have their act together. I don't know how else to put it.
To quote Mobils own documentation from the Mobil link in this thread..
Originally Posted By: Mobil
We now have the very high quality Group III+ base stock,


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...g_to_GTL#UNREAD

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=695007

If someone can get this wrong what else is wrong? Are the new PDS for PP and PU also wrong?
What i would like to know is who in hades is really answering these Q&A.
IMHO there is nothing worse than incompetence and it sure seems someone isn't up to snuff either at Pennzoil or Mobil.

Is Pennzoil claiming there is no such thing as Group III+ or someone answering the questions that is clueless?
The question remains is there such a thing as Group III+ or not?



I'm sure I saw a post from Molekule stating that the + thingy was used but unofficial.
He'd know though , he is in the industry.
Here's my guess at it though. A stock is graded based on its characteristics. Since visom and gtl is relatively new on the scene perhaps they are referred to as + in and amongst industry professionals but the actual grading criteria hasn't been modified to be a + yet.
Just my guess. I think gtl is better than pao on so many levels yet pao is group 4 and gtl group 3.
Maybe the grading system hasn't caught up with technology.
Posted by: llbts1

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 06:38 PM

Perhaps the Pennzoil folks would be kind enough to come back on the board and address some of these questions and concerns?
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/11/14 07:45 PM

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Several people on this forum that are in the industry have always said that Group II/III+ was just marketing.

Now you guys are saying that Pennzoil is inferring that these oils are Group III+ because they call them PurePlus? That's funny. No oil company that sponsors BITOG is ever allowed to come up with marketing slogans again.

Read my original quote. I know that Group II+ and Group III+ are not official designations. My issue is that SOPUS mentions they're not official designations then falls into the same marketing speak. I'm not saying they are calling their base stocks Group III+. I'm saying that they say that adding a "+" to the group number is a problem, yet using the word "Plus" in reference to their base stock name is fine. Group III+ base stocks technically don't exist by industry rules. Neither do "PurePlus" base stocks, or Visom, or TriSyn, HT Purity base stocks, or whatever other marketing gibberish one wants to mention.

I have no issue with marketing. Just don't be hypocritical. I hammered Ashland, too, when they waved off their high, out of spec Noack numbers while having a history of making a giant stink when M1 had compliance issues with SM/GF-4.

With respect to marketing slogans, we BITOGers obviously aren't immune to them. However, we don't, as a group, tend to get impressed by made up words. We'd be a lot more impressed had they actually used "GTL" or the like on the bottle.

What does PurePlus mean? Pure + Contaminants?

Trav: I don't have a problem with any oil company using Group II+ or Group III+ terminology. It's just a way to differentiate a higher VI base stock and a refining method that's a little different from the "normal" Group II and Group III processes. Some companies do it, some don't.

They're marketing words and that's fine. If they mean an very high VI Group III, no problem. It's just disingenuous for an oil company to disparage the use of Group III+ terminology and then basically do the same thing.

Here, here, and here are some references as to how Petro-Canada differentiates their process from the "normal" Group III base stocks. The various sheets describe the processes, and they use their own words, too, but aren't pouncing on other companies for inventing words.
Posted by: DuckRyder

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 06:44 AM

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.


I agree, obviously the marketing and legal department got their way with them.


Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.


I am pretty sure VW507 requires a 5w-30 viscosity, so the 0w-40 and 5w-40's can't meet it. I'm more concerned with the replacement of "certified" and "approved" with "meet the spec"... tells me they probably won't be official. With all the squishiness and crawfishing going on in these answers I sure don't want to try to deal with them an oil related issue...
Posted by: Trav

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 06:59 AM

Your right its tough to get through the smoke and mirrors.
Its not the product you got, its the product you think you got.
Posted by: rockydee

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 07:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Trav
Your right its tough to get through the smoke and mirrors.
Its not the product you got, its the product you think you got.


Interesting comments. For me it will be the oil I won't get now. I'm not a big fan of smoke -n- mirrors, or a company cheapening a product once they've established their customers. Still lots of other good oils around to pick from, no biggie, just a disappointment to some of us.
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 07:35 AM

I've been doing some thinking, and perhaps we're being a little hard on SOPUS here. They did some things I think they should have, and did some that I think they should have left alone.

The big PU/PP issue was marketing, specifically differentiating the products and not making PU look redundant or even lesser than PP, despite the price. Getting the ACEA specs on the products was good, as was dexos1. I understand many here don't like the dexos1 business, but it would be foolish to ignore the synthetic dexos1 business.

Where they seem to have failed is differentiation of the two products, outside the naming improvement. The naming does help, but really, what do they claim PU does that PP won't? They both meet the same specs. The Pennzoil warranty for PP is shorter than for PU, but who knows if that's being changed, and a lifetime mileage limit on an oil is dicey at best (when M1's and Petro-Canada's warranties are perpetual). Both products are supposed to be used for OEM intervals only. So, it seems to me that PP and PU are competing with each other and not Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 EP, respectively. That's a big problem.

With the reformulation (notably for PU, if there even is a real reformulation there), these are still outstanding products. Part of the problem, especially with the Noack issue, is the target audience. We were all paying attention to the low Ultra Noack numbers and were suitably impressed when they were verified.

Then, PYB and QSGB come out with ridiculously low Noack numbers in a recent PQIA test. That's just bad luck and bad timing.

From a Canadian perspective, the real issue is getting Ultra out and about. PP isn't hard to find, and the price is improving. Ultra is just about impossible to find and is at pretty close to Red Line prices, waving at Royal Purple in the mirror $20 ago. That is absolutely unacceptable.
Posted by: Tom NJ

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 09:05 AM

I don't think they understand BITOG. The audience here are practical, knowledge hungry, technically oriented folks who despise marketing fluff & gloss. They should have let their technical people answer the technical questions and let the marketing and legal eagles go do their thing elsewhere. I mean, really, what could they possibly reveal that their competitors don't already know. A little straight talk would have gone a long way.

Tom NJ
Posted by: Quattro Pete

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 10:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
I don't think they understand BITOG. The audience here are practical, knowledge hungry, technically oriented folks who despise marketing fluff & gloss. They should have let their technical people answer the technical questions and let the marketing and legal eagles go do their thing elsewhere.

Yes, but unfortunately, in any large organization, any communication that goes out to the public has to pass through legal, and as such, it will always be dumbed down. This is why these Q&A sessions are always of limited value to the majority of BITOG audience. Most of us know it from past experience, yet we keep jumping on any Q&A opportunity that presents itself, expecting better results next time. I think that's the definition of insanity... smile
Posted by: A_Harman

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 12:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
yet we keep jumping on any Q&A opportunity that presents itself, expecting better results next time. I think that's the definition of insanity... smile


I prefer to think of it in terms of Hadrian and his lamp, wandering in the darkness, looking for an honest man.
Posted by: danthaman1980

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
I don't think they understand BITOG. The audience here are practical, knowledge hungry, technically oriented folks who despise marketing fluff & gloss. They should have let their technical people answer the technical questions and let the marketing and legal eagles go do their thing elsewhere.

Yes, but unfortunately, in any large organization, any communication that goes out to the public has to pass through legal, and as such, it will always be dumbed down. This is why these Q&A sessions are always of limited value to the majority of BITOG audience. Most of us know it from past experience, yet we keep jumping on any Q&A opportunity that presents itself, expecting better results next time. I think that's the definition of insanity... smile


In my estimation, SOPUS marketing is probably the only reason we are offered a Q&A; they are more than likely the driver behind that initiative.

In my experience, public answers to 'social media' questions like those posted on BITOG are usually carefully crafted with input from marketing, technical, and legal/regulatory departments. Legal usually gets the last word in such discussions. As such, they are 'dumbed down', or more precisely, stripped of any proprietary information. But the answers must be truthful, or else competitors will file lawsuits.

Again, I thank the SOPUS marketers for keeping us as involved as possible, and thank the Pennzoil technical and legal departments for taking time out of their busy schedules to provide us with the answers.
Posted by: HTSS_TR

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.
I agree, obviously the marketing and legal department got their way with them.

+2
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 01:07 PM

You are right that this is a marketing driven initiative.

But where these things fall down are when either marketing doesn't have enough technical ability or when marketing can't persuade technical people to give them fuller answers. Or both which is what I suspect is going on.

And that's why I said that its one thing to think its a good thing to have a social media strategy and delegate it to the associate brand manager, and another thing to realize that it is not just BITOG types that are interested in oil and if you can find the right balance of technical info and marketing speak, you can address that market better.

Again, just look at how Mobil 1 do it on their website. They give out more technical info on their own site to people less interested in oil than we are. Not just the huge Q&A there but also just ensuring all the products are listed and all the technical data sheets are easily available.

Pennzoil go with marketing on their website, don't list all the products, don't have all the data sheets and then come to this site and give us 95% marketing speak in the q&a for their revolutionary launch.

Two different levels of marketing sophistication and execution for premium synthetic oils and the market share shows the results.
Posted by: danthaman1980

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 03:46 PM

TrevorS,

I suspect the lack of technical information is purely due to SOPUS lawyers' unwillingness to divulge proprietary information.

I agree that the Pennzoil website leaves a lot to be desired, especially when compared to the M1 website. But contrast that with this: Based on my recent experiences, M1 customer service leaves a lot to be desired compared to SOPUS. So which do you prefer, a better website or better customer support?

I want a reasonably priced, high quality product from a company who cares about my business, and who cares about BITOG. Pennzoil and Castrol have both offered and completed BITOG Q&As. How many has Mobil 1 offered? Zero?

I'm done with M1 for a while. If they can do without my business, I can do without their oil.
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/12/14 04:57 PM

I wouldn't imagine requiring telephone support.

But what went wrong that you needed them?
Posted by: danthaman1980

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/13/14 03:31 AM

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
I wouldn't imagine requiring telephone support.

But what went wrong that you needed them?


$15 rebate submission apparently got lost in the mail, Mobil 1 says they have no record of my submission. I say OK, well I have copies of my receipt and rebate form, where should I send those? Mobil 1 says I'm S.O.L. since that promotion has ended... They won't look at my copies.  Then they have the audacity to suggest I check out their current rebate promotion and try again? I'm thinking, are you F***ing kidding me? No thanks, keep your oil.
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/13/14 03:59 AM

That sucks. I keep a close eye on rebate dates and timings to make sure I can't get caught out by submission deadlines.

Pennzoil has upset a lot of people here with their rebates. I was denied also. But they have gone to online submission which prevents things getting lost.
Posted by: danthaman1980

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/13/14 04:20 AM

I've had limited problems with Pennzoil rebates in the past too, but in my experience denial was either technically my fault (non-participating retailer, or forgot to copy my receipt), or was later fixed and I got my rebate... just a bit late.

For sure SOPUS isn't perfect, but at least they seem to be trying.
Posted by: Bandito440

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/14/14 12:36 AM

I'd just like to hear from them about what happened to the PU NOACK...
Posted by: Indydriver

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/21/14 12:54 AM

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Two different levels of marketing sophistication and execution for premium synthetic oils and the market share shows the results.


LOL, marketing sophistication indeed. I'm thinking of the Tony Stewart "soda cookie" M1 commercial.

But seriously, I have said for years when it comes to marketing, "mileage guarantee" beats "cleaner engine" every time. And I noticed SOPUS's repeated stubborn insistence that OCI (or ODI as they called it) is the province of auto manufacturers only. They almost seemed a bit touchy on this subject as though they've tried to convince themselves that they haven't really been outmarketed by the XOM guys for years.

And finally, I don't know about you but, it did grate on me to learn that all this new tech base stock is coming from Qatar.
Posted by: PeterGreen

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/21/14 06:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Interesting read.
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks.
So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.


It's great to be vindicated, ain't it?
Posted by: Danh

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/21/14 04:52 PM

Fwiw, the TDS documents for Ultra Platinum have reappeared on Shell's website. When they were taken down a week or two ago there was a thought maybe they were in error, especially the new Noack figures.

While there may have been changes, the new TDSs look like the ones that were pulled as far as I can tell. Noack is still roughly double what it was in the old formula and higher than the new Platinum formulation. I know there's a lot more to a motor oil than volatility, but this is still odd.
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/21/14 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By: PeterGreen
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Interesting read.
What I found most interesting is pennzoil saying in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a group 3+ Nor any + when grading base stocks.
So take that to all those who told me I was wrong when I wrote that there was no such thing as a + base stock.


It's great to be vindicated, ain't it?



It is. Especially when ganged up on and having unofficial posts copied and pasted as though it's evidence.
Posted by: Clevy

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/21/14 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Danh
Fwiw, the TDS documents for Ultra Platinum have reappeared on Shell's website. When they were taken down a week or two ago there was a thought maybe they were in error, especially the new Noack figures.

While there may have been changes, the new TDSs look like the ones that were pulled as far as I can tell. Noack is still roughly double what it was in the old formula and higher than the new Platinum formulation. I know there's a lot more to a motor oil than volatility, but this is still odd.



Could it be that sopus is just CTA when it comes to batch variations,and their noack number is a maximum figure and not what will typically be in the bottles?
Posted by: Black_Thunder

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/22/14 02:57 AM

Ok so now whats the difference between the platinum and the new platinum that is now derived from natural gas?


at walmart they still have the plain label platinum but when i went to Menards they had the new bottles saying it was made from natural gas.
Posted by: Bandito440

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/22/14 01:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Danh
Fwiw, the TDS documents for Ultra Platinum have reappeared on Shell's website. When they were taken down a week or two ago there was a thought maybe they were in error, especially the new Noack figures.

While there may have been changes, the new TDSs look like the ones that were pulled as far as I can tell. Noack is still roughly double what it was in the old formula and higher than the new Platinum formulation. I know there's a lot more to a motor oil than volatility, but this is still odd.



Could it be that sopus is just CTA when it comes to batch variations,and their noack number is a maximum figure and not what will typically be in the bottles?


That's a thought. Perhaps the lady from SOPUS could just chime in and clear this up for us. SuzanneClerkin are you out there?
Posted by: another Todd

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/25/14 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Overall I was disappointed with the answers.

Eg they were asked if Platinum and Ultra used GTL already. The answer was given for Platinum only and gave a date of "2013" which is a bit vague.

There was an answer that Noack of Platinum is below 10% when I think there are already official TDS that show higher.

The Ultra Euro 5w40 is being rebranded as Platinum while the 0w40 SRT will be Ultra Platinum. Yet they say Ultra Platinum is better than Platinum.

In their complete list they said all 3 Euro oils would be Platinum and have 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40. Then when asked about VW diesel, they listed 2 5w30 Ultra Platinum oils that would meet the spec. These oils weren't in their complete list.

I do like that they have settled into the idea that their oils are about keeping your engine clean, that the base oil helps with this and the Ultra keeps things 65% cleaner compared to Platinum 40% cleaner. So we have a major manufacturer saying that synthetic over the same interval keeps things cleaner and modern engines with turbos and DI can benefit.


I rarely agree with you however I do here.
The answers given were standard form answers to questions that repeated themselves and got a repeated answer.
On paper it looks as though pennzoil took a step backwards however once we start getting some data,from members with trending used oil analysis we'll see just how well tbn/tan hold up and see just how many miles the products will truly go


I agree as well. Although I appreciate them trying to answer BITOG's questions, the answers were very carefully worded and in many cases just danced around the question without answering it, and I am not talking about the proprietary info answers, I get it that they won't answer some questions. That said, I do believe their products are of very high quality and I will continue to use them.
Posted by: rikstaker

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 03/30/14 10:57 PM

They are touting GTL in the new platinum but their msds for platinum shows "Blend of a synthetic ester, polyolefin and additives" dated 02/05/2014. I mean [censored]!..
Posted by: ODubhGhaill

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 04/02/14 01:08 PM

I would like to know when this will be available at local stores including Walmart. I have read that it is already available in some CONUS locations, but I have not seen it in Central New York.

Edited to add that I just realized this is my first post - I have lurked so long here that I was surprised about that. Outstanding forum.
Posted by: Bandito440

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 04/02/14 04:51 PM

We'll, I sent a PM to the Pennzoil rep SuzanneClerkin about a week ago regarding the NOACK numbers. It remains unread.

I wonder if they gave up on us after we didn't buy in to the Q&A, which seemed more advertising fluff than technical.

Boo.
Posted by: ODubhGhaill

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 04/04/14 09:29 AM

Local Wally World has one 5qt jug of the new Platinum in 5w20, the weight I need. Local AutoZone had several jugs (+$10 more per jug), but no PUP to be found as of yet...is the PUP going to be as unobtainable as the PU?
Posted by: Odyssey

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 04/10/14 12:25 PM

i bought the new PP 5w20 at $27CAD after 40% discount. in the back of the new jug, there is no ACEA certification whatsoever. the old PP, QSUD or M1 of the same category they all have A1/B1 or at least A1. is it reasonable to conclude that the new PP is an inferior product compare to the old one and other brands, at least on paper?
Posted by: BigBird57

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 04/15/14 08:11 PM

There rebate system is inferior as well.
Posted by: crazyoildude

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 04/18/14 10:59 PM

i always liked sopus i think a few uoa's will be helpful and tell the whole story..
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 04/19/14 02:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Odyssey
i bought the new PP 5w20 at $27CAD after 40% discount. in the back of the new jug, there is no ACEA certification whatsoever. the old PP, QSUD or M1 of the same category they all have A1/B1 or at least A1. is it reasonable to conclude that the new PP is an inferior product compare to the old one and other brands, at least on paper?

Check the new data sheets. For 5w-30, at least, the sheets do show the A1/B1 A5/B5 specifications.
Posted by: used_0il

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 05/29/14 11:23 PM

Have the specifications of the Pearl base oils been published yet, if so are they available or is that proprietary information?
Posted by: mcshooter

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 06/12/14 09:44 AM

I just tried the new pen. With the natural gas base and my oil pressure is higher?? It might be the fram filter I had to use since the wix I got would not fit due to its larger dia. Because of the oil cooler hoses I have. I moved the oil cooler to the front on my twin turbo stealth.I use 5-30 oil.just wondering why the higher oil pressure.
Posted by: Marco620

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 06/20/14 01:14 AM

Higher psi could be from the oil having a higher film strength maybe. If the car is modded could that have some effect? Usually a higher psi says the compression is better but how much higher. If it gets too high you might consider a higher octane fuel to prevent pre detonation. If the mileage and idle are good I wouldnt worry too much.
Posted by: Rolla07

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 06/23/14 05:06 AM

I think Sopus is a joke. Can't find PUP anywhere in Montreal area and checked Plattsburgh NY, and Burlington VT and nope nobody has it. Spend a ton on marketing and don't make the product available for purchase. Intelligence at its best.
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 06/23/14 06:50 PM

Don't just blame SOPUS. Blame the retailers. Walmart and Canadian Tire like to mark up oils over 100% for their regular prices. Combine that with SOPUS not marketing PU as a long drain oil (versus M1 EP), and you can see why it never worked up here. NAPA apparently still sells it at an outrageous price. Check your local SOPUS distributor and see what they can offer you.
Posted by: anndel

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 06/29/14 02:51 PM

Is it really true that Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is better than Mobil 1 in terms of clean pistons?
Posted by: Leonardo629

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 06/29/14 09:19 PM

Will we ever see the new Platinum Euro 40wt oil at Walmart?
Posted by: Tony10s

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 06/30/14 04:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I think Sopus is a joke. Can't find PUP anywhere in Montreal area and checked Plattsburgh NY, and Burlington VT and nope nobody has it. Spend a ton on marketing and don't make the product available for purchase. Intelligence at its best.


I know what you mean. I went out of my way to a WM not in my area to buy some Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, but I'm not going to do that again. I like Mobil 1 just the same, and that's what I'm going to be using from now on. Also, Sopus does not foil seal their jugs of motor oil ... Mobil 1 uses a foil seal in addition to the tamper-proof ring on the cap ... another reason for me to use Mobil 1.
Posted by: PurplePride

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 07/06/14 08:41 PM

I picked some up today in Pasadena. Someone had put them behind the "old" Pennz Platinum (5qt jugs). I got two of them for $37.95 each, plus two PureOne filters for the FJ. I opened it up, and it does smell a lot different to me. Interested in seeing how it performs. Will be changing out this week. They only had 1Qt bottles of the Platinum Ultra and those were almost $10 a pop, so I figured this would do just fine.
Posted by: richport29

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 07/06/14 09:16 PM

Has Sopus ever given a reason why PUPP isn't available in Canada?

Same deal with the old PU.. (Only found at Napa for an insane price)
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 07/06/14 09:39 PM

Blame the retailers. Walmart Canada doesn't bother much with gold bottle Edge or M1 EP, either. Their desire for 100%+ markup on motor oil means that no one buys any of those products from them.
Posted by: Marco620

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 07/06/14 11:21 PM

Only people with PUP available is JiffyLube and I wouldn't trust them with a potato gun. I cant imagine paying 69.99 for a car that only needs 3qts and a cheap filter which I am sure they would use. Guess I will stick to my old Ultra stash or PP Gtl
Posted by: Tony10s

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 07/07/14 11:59 AM

In a previous post of mine I mentioned that I didn't want to use Sopus oils anymore, mainly due to the problem of finding Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. After thinking about this further, I will still use Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability ... that is, when I can find an unopened jug of oil. It is just annoying trying to find a jug of PP/QSUD at WM that has not been opened. I am not going to buy/use motor oil that has had the break-away seal on the cap completely broken, especially on jugs of oil that don't have a foil seal on them.
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 07/07/14 05:14 PM

That's a prime reason to buy from a distributor. I realize that it's a pretty sad state of affairs when we have to be worried about purchasing used oil. However, at the distributor, it's nice to get a clean, sealed box of clean, sealed jugs from a warehouse that's not readily accessible to the public. Shopping at Walmart means you have to deal with the people of Walmart, and I'll pass.
Posted by: richport29

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 07/19/14 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Garak
Don't just blame SOPUS. Blame the retailers. Walmart and Canadian Tire like to mark up oils over 100% for their regular prices. Combine that with SOPUS not marketing PU as a long drain oil (versus M1 EP), and you can see why it never worked up here. NAPA apparently still sells it at an outrageous price. Check your local SOPUS distributor and see what they can offer you.


Didn't you find it odd SOPUS completely dodged that question?

1. Will you market Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus in Canada?

There response: Yes, Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oils with PurePlus™ Technology will be available in Canada.
Posted by: Garak

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 07/20/14 01:21 PM

Yep, that was a wonderful dodge. I don't know the situation down east, but out west, a normal SOPUS distributor cannot sell Pennzoil/Quaker State products. In this province, there is one distributor allowed to do that, with an office in the north (not in Saskatoon) and an office in the south (not in Regina). So, for those products, and with PU in particularly, one is at the mercy of retailers, notably Walmart and Canadian Tire, who will not carry them, and NAPA, who wants a gagillion dollars a litre for the stuff.

Walmart Canada doesn't seem interested in any of the top end synthetics anymore, either. The gold bottle Castrol and M1 EP were history last time I took a look. All that accomplishes is eliminating all competition that Canadian Tire faces on M1 EP and gold bottle Castrol.

Shell really screwed up their distribution network in western Canada a long time ago. They essentially washed their hands of bulk fuel distribution in rural areas and left their motor oil products to other retailers to sell for them.
Posted by: PurplePride

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 08/03/14 11:05 AM

I've got close to 1k on the new oil. I really like it. I've been around long enough to know there's many psychological benefits and butt dynos but I think it's smoother than ever with it in. Didn't have the Ultra in the five quart jugs yet so I started with the lower cost iteration this round. Smell is definitely different, as is the color. Will be interesting to see how it goes. I've been doing 7k OCI on the FJ and it's a number I feel good about. Oil comes out good and grubby but not so much as to smell over-done.
Posted by: 351mustang65

Re: Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology Q&A - 08/15/14 03:01 AM

Not sure if this has been asked but can you mix the old PU with this new stuff?

I ask because I am ready for an oil change and I have a few quarts of the old PU but the only PU I can find now is this new pureplus.