I've read a spectrum of opinions regarding the effects of 5w-20 on engine longevity. Some say that 5w-20 is way too thin and will cause premature bearing and ring failure. Others say that 5w-20 is fine, even in the hottest climates, and will have no ill effects upon an engine. Since Honda and other manufacturers have been recommending 5w-20 for several years now, there should be some folks with some long-term experience with this viscosity oil. Is there anyone who has an engine with over 100,000 miles that has been fed 5w-20? If so, have you experienced any premature wear or other oil related problems? Conversely, is there anyone who has run 5w-20 exclusively, has stayed within manufacturer's OCI and has experienced any engine damage or failure as a direct result of the use of 5w-20? Please elucidate and mention brand of oil, filter used and OCI. Info about UOA's, compression tests on engines, etc. will also be helpful. Thank you for your responses.
5w-20 and engine longevity
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Well not 100,000 but my wife's '02 Windstar has 62,000 miles on it using 5w-20 Havoline, Motorcraft and Exxon Superflo with Motorcraft FL-400s filters changed at 5000 mile intervals. No consumption or engine noises or problems and when you look into the oil fill it is remarkably clean inside.
Only 15k miles here with a 10,000 mile OCI with Honda oem 5w20. When I switched to 0w20 Mobil One it was real real clean inside the oil filler neck.
I would think by now, that IF 5w20 actually was detrimental to engine longevity, that all the naysayers would be jumping with joy at ALL the UOA that demonstrates their point. Where are these UOA?
DO you think the Manafacturer's just sat around and said "lets use 5w20" without testing it for hundreds of thousand miles?
The oil will hold up fine.
The oil will hold up fine.
Here's an interesting article to read. Note page 4.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/auto_technology/1266926.html?page=1&c=y
I also find it amusing that some people believe that ignoring the manufacturer's recommendations somehow guarantees them an engine that will last 400,000 miles.
[ August 11, 2005, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/auto_technology/1266926.html?page=1&c=y
I also find it amusing that some people believe that ignoring the manufacturer's recommendations somehow guarantees them an engine that will last 400,000 miles.
[ August 11, 2005, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
The original Mobil 1 was 5W-20. Mobil ran millions of miles on hundred of cars in test fleets with zero problems.
I have never understood the fascination with SAE 30 and 40 oils in synthetics. Unless you're dealing with air-cooled engines or engines designed for heavier viscosities (e.g., cars from the 20's and '30s), all you gain from heavier viscosities is a drop in oil consumption at a decrease in gas mileage.
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That article really only indicates that 5W20 is the best overall combination fuel economy, horsepower, and durability in average conditions. Heavier or lighter and you have a tradeoff.
Denying the heavier oils advantages in some conditions is just like denying the advantages of a light oil in given conditions.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both and there are situations in which one will outperform the other.
Just imagine extreme examples using a super light weight oil or a super heavy weight oil..Both would be detrimental to an engine but for different reasons.
If you believe the manufacturer's recommendations there are plenty of owners manuals out there that suggest lighter oils for cold start up and fuel economy, and heavier for more protection in hot weather.
So why the sudden shift to one light weight for all seasons ?
The recent push for one specific weight at all times is an EPA deal and nothing more. They are *REQUIRED* by law to meet a certain mpg...The easiest and most cost effective way to do this is light oil during all seasons...This is not rocket science here folks...Lighter oil, less drag, more fuel efficient..Ever heard the pres speak about more fuel efficient cars ? All the time...It's a sign of the times...There's a huge environmental push...Kyoto treaties ect(ever heard of it?)...Tons of science books in America show the U.S. under water because of global warming...I don't buy into it but the epa does.
You're not going to kill your motor using a 5W20 but a 5W30 may offer a similar percentage of protection that the 5w20 saves in fuel economy. Slight tradeoff that's all really until you go to extremes.
Denying the heavier oils advantages in some conditions is just like denying the advantages of a light oil in given conditions.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both and there are situations in which one will outperform the other.
Just imagine extreme examples using a super light weight oil or a super heavy weight oil..Both would be detrimental to an engine but for different reasons.
If you believe the manufacturer's recommendations there are plenty of owners manuals out there that suggest lighter oils for cold start up and fuel economy, and heavier for more protection in hot weather.
So why the sudden shift to one light weight for all seasons ?
The recent push for one specific weight at all times is an EPA deal and nothing more. They are *REQUIRED* by law to meet a certain mpg...The easiest and most cost effective way to do this is light oil during all seasons...This is not rocket science here folks...Lighter oil, less drag, more fuel efficient..Ever heard the pres speak about more fuel efficient cars ? All the time...It's a sign of the times...There's a huge environmental push...Kyoto treaties ect(ever heard of it?)...Tons of science books in America show the U.S. under water because of global warming...I don't buy into it but the epa does.
You're not going to kill your motor using a 5W20 but a 5W30 may offer a similar percentage of protection that the 5w20 saves in fuel economy. Slight tradeoff that's all really until you go to extremes.
I have seen a couple of studies that showed that the overall wear rates are higher for 20 wts (wish I could locate them). But whether that translates into shorter engine life is unknown (by me)
I know the technical departments of Redline, Amsoil and Elf specifically, are not fond of 20wt oils. Under high speed, high load conditions, I'd feel better with a 30wt oil or even a 40wt, however, UOA's on here suggest 20wts can handle hard driving as well. Their is no doubt why 20wts are used (CAFE is a fact), but their protection is still questionable among many. GF-4 also reduced the anti-wear additives and that has been a concern of some Japanese auto makers.
20wts are fine and even great for many applications. What I'm saying is if it weren't for the EPA and fuel efficiency, they would not exist. That IMO, is a fact. It is clearly driven by CAFE. The SRT Hemi calls for M1 0w-40. My engine, in the 200HP TSX calls for a 5w-30. My car, a 5w-20. Draw your own conclusion.
My experience is close to your post, but not 'perfect'. 2002 Ford 4.6L V8, currently 89,000 miles. Here is the history:
initial fill to 45k miles - 5w-20 (5k OCI's)
45k - 60k miles - 5w-30 (5k OCI's)
60k - 82k miles - 5w-20 (5k OCI's)
I was skeptical of the 5w-20 and after the warranty expired I switched to 5w-30 for three 5k OCI's and tested. Blackstone results showed the 5w-20 slightly outperformed the 5w-30 and I went back to 5w-20.
I have Blackstone tests with each of these intervals and the last test at 82k miles is outstanding. It is posted on the board. Good luck.
initial fill to 45k miles - 5w-20 (5k OCI's)
45k - 60k miles - 5w-30 (5k OCI's)
60k - 82k miles - 5w-20 (5k OCI's)
I was skeptical of the 5w-20 and after the warranty expired I switched to 5w-30 for three 5k OCI's and tested. Blackstone results showed the 5w-20 slightly outperformed the 5w-30 and I went back to 5w-20.
I have Blackstone tests with each of these intervals and the last test at 82k miles is outstanding. It is posted on the board. Good luck.
Back in the 1950's, when I was a young guy, I put slightly over 140,000 miles on a 1954 Ford V-8 with overdrive transmission. All these miles were on straight 20 weight Sinclair oil. In those days, we used 20 weight until an engine began to use oil, and then switched to 30 weight. I never have been one to keep a car forever, and I swapped this car off in 1959. At that point, the engine was still using 20 W, and the mechanical valve lifters had never required an adjustment. The engine had been revved high on numerous occasions; I was 17 to 21 years old in those days. The car did require a new clutch at 85,000 miles, but the engine was still not smoking or burning oil. During these years, I was going to college and in the Army, coming home nearly every weekend (Girlfriend). The oil did not get changed very often.
I gotta believe that the multigrade 20 weights now are at least as good as the oils of 50 years ago, especially since Ford requires that it pass a double length test to qualify.
Who wants a car to last 400,000 miles, anyway? That is 20 years at 20,000 miles a year. What would the rest of the car look like, inside and out?
I gotta believe that the multigrade 20 weights now are at least as good as the oils of 50 years ago, especially since Ford requires that it pass a double length test to qualify.
Who wants a car to last 400,000 miles, anyway? That is 20 years at 20,000 miles a year. What would the rest of the car look like, inside and out?
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