But while here ,
Mobil Drive Clean High Mileage Synthetic Blend :
I don't suppose they use ------------- ?
Mobil Drive Clean High Mileage Synthetic Blend :
I don't suppose they use ------------- ?
Mobil 1-Alkylated Naphthalene
- Thread starter buster
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MolaKule
Staff member
In the spec section on EM's Synnestic AN's, notice the majority of tests were conducted and reported with a 1% antioxidant additive.
Great, I guess I know what to do with my daily dose of vitamin E
. What is the significance of the 1% antiox additive. I'm afraid the implications of your statement evades me. Clarification please.
thank you.
thank you.
MolaKule
Staff member
A 1% dose of anti-oxidants would make the base oil look more stable in terms of volatility, viscosity rise over time, thermal stability, etc.
What formulators and blenders would like to know is: what are the VIRGIN base oil's characteristsics, because I may want to use my own anti-oxidant and my anti-oxidant will most likely not be the one EM used in their tests.
In summary, the use of the 1% dose of anti-oxidants skews the base oil's "base" characteristics; it hides things.
What formulators and blenders would like to know is: what are the VIRGIN base oil's characteristsics, because I may want to use my own anti-oxidant and my anti-oxidant will most likely not be the one EM used in their tests.
In summary, the use of the 1% dose of anti-oxidants skews the base oil's "base" characteristics; it hides things.
The spec is a very clearly headed:quote:
Originally posted by dustyjoe1:
Great, I guess I know what to do with my daily dose of vitamin E. What is the significance of the 1% antiox additive. I'm afraid the implications of your statement evades me. Clarification please.
http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/P..._Fluids/Worldwide/Data_Sheet_Synesstic_v5.pdf
"Oxidation and Corrosion 347°F, 72 hr with AO"
None of their other base or blend stocks on the website provide this spec, so it looks like the copywriter used what he or she had at hand, and it was a test run with Anti-Oxidant. It probably slightly overstates the capabilities of this lubricant over what would have been the results with virgin AN.
The kind of people who would consider buying this product would be obtaining samples, pricing, and technical data such as production variability and additive compatibility, so they wouldn't be relying on the specs on the website for decision-making.
The phrase "alkylated napthalene" has been ringing a bell, and that bell was Conoco's Polar Start DN-600 developed in the 60s for the Army for arctic use. It was an alkylated benzene (benzene alkylated with chlorinated paraffins).
FWIW - I have a good friend who's a chemist, but not familiar with oil formulations. I mentioned this thread to him and the first thing he asked was "Are they using it ( alkylated naphthalene ) as a surfactant?"
MolaKule
Staff member
Typically, one would obtain a 1 to 5-gal. sample along a "Certificate of Analysis" (COA) which would show most of the details.
My point was that even with technical specs, you have to troll through the specs with a fine-toothed comb and cut through the hype at this level as well.
In the PDF below I just see an honest description of the product and wording like
represent a unique class of API group V
and
can provide superior thermal oxidative stability
and a notation clearly at the bottom showing the listed data was arrived by using 1% anti-oxident .
But my post was not mean't to be argumentitive , just how I interpit the wording .
Mobil
The thing that strikes me is the Group V part of it
Me brain got lost somewhere and AN = PAO was tossed in it somehow , someway .
Group V is an Ester there Motorbike .
M1 Supersyn
because it takes a high heat/high blowby motor to thicken it quickley .
Hey Mobil , Motorbike here with a question
Are you guys using this groovy base oil in the Mobil Synthetic Blend and if so , does it help clean ?
If I get an answer I'll be sure to post it
represent a unique class of API group V
and
can provide superior thermal oxidative stability
and a notation clearly at the bottom showing the listed data was arrived by using 1% anti-oxident .
But my post was not mean't to be argumentitive , just how I interpit the wording .
Mobil
The thing that strikes me is the Group V part of it
Group V is an Ester there Motorbike .
M1 Supersyn
Hey Mobil , Motorbike here with a question
Are you guys using this groovy base oil in the Mobil Synthetic Blend and if so , does it help clean ?
If I get an answer I'll be sure to post it
I'm wondering the same thing or even if its in the M1 SS. Sounds like a very impressive base. Aren't ya glad I posted it?
I bet M1R or some of their racing oils they blend for race teams use the AN's. Sounds like good stuff.
Yeah I'm glad you posted it
I want a gallon of it pure and right out of the Ester well at E/M
I really think I can get it in smaller quantities by buying formulated M1 SuperSsyn though .
I really think I can get it in smaller quantities by buying formulated M1 SuperSsyn though .
But with his background he might could help us along ? He already knew something about it .
Think he might could join in the discussion with us ? The more , the merrier
I'm with you. I'm going to try to get him to reg. He works with solid rocket fuels plus coatings and adhesives but knows plenty about a variety of things chemical. He's the one of the guys that first convinced me to try Mobil 1 in fact. I'll see what I can do...quote:
Originally posted by Motorbike:
But with his background he might could help us along ? He already knew something about it .
Think he might could join in the discussion with us ? The more , the merrier
I only found 5 hits when searching through all the forums for AN's. Sounds like they are very valuable to a formulator and I wouldn't be surprised if a small amount is present in M1 SS. The M1 descriptions lists Mobil 1 as being Synthetic base fluids including Pao. So could be esters but I'd be willing to bet it's AN. Could this be the "ester less" part of M1? Are these AN's even really classified as Esters? Maybe George Morrison knows.
[ August 29, 2004, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
quote:
Originally posted by tdi-rick:
You've all been talking about M1, but what about their HDEO's up to and including D1 ? (D1=26% Group V, it's surmised)
It sounds like it would suit this application perfectly.
Rick.
The Mobil hot line is closed on Sunday or I'd ask
One of the reasons I don't work for E/M is I don't know what alot of that data is
I do see the # 12 fluid is frozen at -40c but especially saw the Lead corrosion test which I never knew was performed and the 3A rating of the copper corrosion test of the fluid w/o additives .
Big difference in the flash points . Same among the formulated SuperSyn's too that I recall a previous discussion about over in the Virgin OA section .
Hmmmm .
[ August 29, 2004, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]
I do see the # 12 fluid is frozen at -40c but especially saw the Lead corrosion test which I never knew was performed and the 3A rating of the copper corrosion test of the fluid w/o additives .
Big difference in the flash points . Same among the formulated SuperSyn's too that I recall a previous discussion about over in the Virgin OA section .
Hmmmm .
[ August 29, 2004, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]
Maybe it was said above but I wonder if there is a CAS number for the alkylated naphthalene?
Hey, maybe ANs are the secret ingredient in Royal Purple's Synerlec!
Hey, maybe ANs are the secret ingredient in Royal Purple's Synerlec!
MolaKule
Staff member
Not quite correct, Mobil's AN is an olefinic AN and the additive solubility for the higher viscosity AN is pretty poor as of now. They only have two major AN's for PCMO's.
Group V fluids are esters, AN's, AB's, etc. Anything not conforming to Group I-IV are placed in the Group V category.
So PAO has it's own group. I would guess that someday (if things get too crowded in the V group) they will have to split out a Group VI, leaving esters with it's own group.
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