Other GM teams concerned Gibbs is going to Toyota

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A new Ford cylinder was approved in 2004, the year Rousch dominated. No need to give Ford squat. I don't know why you guys keep saying Ford has an old cylinder, it simply isn't the case. Some would say that is why they dominated all the 2 mile tracks, and most of the 1.5 milers too, in 04-05 and even 06. The only reason Chevy has won races was because of the gains they achieved in the aero department.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/us30439.htm

http://www.nascar.com/2004/news/headlines/cup/05/14/friday_notes/index.html

Link just before the final approval- http://www.fordracing.com/news/detail/?article=23665&flashcheck=1
 
I stand corrected. After this year, it's a mute point. There will be no aero advantage with the IROC or COT or whatever they will call it next year. It will be all in the set-up. I wonder how many wind tunnels will be for sale. I think that the Hendrick penalties solved that cheating problem.
 
HondaF1Fanatic,

Here's some of Japan's famous Xenophobic links:

http://www.katu.com/news/business/8624302.html

http://www.letsjapan.org/?q=xenophobia-now.html

http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/archives/200404/surveys.htm


http://www.biz2web.com/grant/times2.htm

http://www.g21.net/asia30.htm

If you read those articles you can see Japan is trying very hard to keep us and others out of their country and culture and doing a very good job at it.

By trying to say the Camry is more American than other real American cars you are implying that Toyota is just as, or more American as GM, Ford and Chrysler. And as long as Japan is going to be as terribly xenophobic as boxcarrommie22, I see no reason o keep them out of traditional American racing. You don't like fair play? Then read those articles.
 
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I am sure you will continue to find ways to justify your myopic and xenophobic view of the world all the while typing on your computer (where are the vast majority of the components for that made?), watching your television (How about that?) and wearing clothes (hrm, wonder where they are made?). It makes sense to me.
smirk.gif





Oh boy, here we go. Since you seem to be so keen on examples and parables, bringing that up is akin to being told by a doctor that he's going to have to amputate a finger above the second knuckle, and you saying, "That's OK doc, why don't you just take the whole arm, I don't need it anyway".
laugh.gif
In other words, we still have a choice as far as automobiles are concerned in this country, UNLIKE ALL of the other consumables you've mentioned above. Yeah, that makes "perfect sense" to me.
smirk.gif
I guess all of the "importees" and "globalists" like yourself (and the countless others on this board, I'm suprised your #1 loudmouth, "mokie" is not on here yet) will NEVER be happy until one can ONLY buy Nippon/foreign product here, right??(despite how much all of you claim to be free/"fair" trade proponents.

You mention the JGTC letting the USDM rides into their series. This is almost as recent an occurrence as NASCAR letting TOY play. Besides, I'm SUREthat they bias the rules in favor of the JDM manufacturers to the point of making it almost impossible for the U.S. domestics to ever get on the podium, let alone win.

I hope Gibbs goes to the Nippon Giant. I can't stand Home Depot, NEVER liked Tony Baloney (although I would root for him over ANY of the TOY teams/drivers, as long as he's driving a domestic named ride), and J.G. NEVER struck me as that much of a knowledgeable "car guy", very much UNLIKE someone such as Jack Rousch. Now I can go back to "hating on" "Smoke" and Home Crapo!
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HondaF1Fanatic,

Here's some of Japan's famous Xenophobic links:

http://www.katu.com/news/business/8624302.html

http://www.letsjapan.org/?q=xenophobia-now.html

http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/archives/200404/surveys.htm


http://www.biz2web.com/grant/times2.htm

http://www.g21.net/asia30.htm

If you read those articles you can see Japan is trying very hard to keep us and others out of their country and culture and doing a very good job at it.

By trying to say the Camry is more American than other real American cars you are implying that Toyota is just as, or more American as GM, Ford and Chrysler. And as long as Japan is going to be as terribly xenophobic as boxcarrommie22, I see no reason o keep them out of traditional American racing. You don't like fair play? Then read those articles.




Again a "Mommy he did it first" argument followed by an ----umption about my meaning or intent. Anything new and bright to add?

Jon
 
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Oh boy, here we go. Since you seem to be so keen on examples and parables, bringing that up is akin to being told by a doctor that he's going to have to amputate a finger above the second knuckle, and you saying, "That's OK doc, why don't you just take the whole arm, I don't need it anyway".
laugh.gif
In other words, we still have a choice as far as automobiles are concerned in this country, UNLIKE ALL of the other consumables you've mentioned above. Yeah, that makes "perfect sense" to me.
smirk.gif





Did you ever stop to think about why the consumables I referenced are no longer available in the US? Because Americans (probably not you or anyone you know though
smirk.gif
) voted by purchasing based on price point and not amount of domestic content. Would you be willing to pay $100 for an American made T-shirt using American cotton? How about $5,000 for a 27" Non-HDTV CRT TV built using all American components? I somehow doubt it.


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I guess all of the "importees" and "globalists" like yourself (and the countless others on this board, I'm suprised your #1 loudmouth, "mokie" is not on here yet) will NEVER be happy until one can ONLY buy Nippon/foreign product here, right??(despite how much all of you claim to be free/"fair" trade proponents.




Don't assume to know how I think with only assumptions and a few paragraphs from BITOG to back it up. I never claimed to only want Nippon/Foreign products, in fact I try to make a conscious effort to buy domestic products or if that is not possible, products made under good working conditions. I shop at the farmer's market for food when it is in season, I buy shirts, pants and shoes that are more expensive but made under humane conditions (and have very few outfits because of it). That said, I am not infinitely wealthy and when it comes to car purchases I will buy the car that offers the best compromise of the aforementioned criteria as well as its quality/durability and price point. At this point in time nothing from GM, Ford, or Chrysler satisfies my needs. Look at how many GM, Ford, and Chrysler products are recommended by Consumer Reports. I think it is unfortunate that the Japanese and other countries we purchase the vast majority of our consumer goods from are such xenophibic lemmings, but how does being exactly the same as them make you somehow superior?

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You mention the JGTC letting the USDM rides into their series. This is almost as recent an occurrence as NASCAR letting TOY play. Besides, I'm SUREthat they bias the rules in favor of the JDM manufacturers to the point of making it almost impossible for the U.S. domestics to ever get on the podium, let alone win.




How is allowing the Viper to compete in 1996 after the first GTS racecar was assembled by ORECA the same as NASCAR allowing the Camry to compete more than 20 years after it appeared in the US? The Corvette also never had a chance until Pratt & Miller and GM started their partnership (not the Japanese fault) as there weren't any competitive cars available with any semblance of factory backing. Also, Corvettes are ridiculously expensive and rare in Japan due to both import tariffs and the fact that GM exports very few Corvettes anywhere much less Japan where many of the roads aren't even wide enough to allow a Corvette to drive in one lane (could we reasonably blame GM for this fact? Heck no). Both the Corvette and a Viper have won JGTC races and scored multiple podiums, the problem is that they will never be very competitive in an environment that sees the top Japanese teams spending more than $50 million per year on a two car team. If GM or Chrysler was willing to jump in and spend half this amount of money they would be instant contenders, it just doesn't make sense for them as neither sell many cars in Japan (again some can be blamed on import tax and some on car size). Toyota, however, does sell a metric ton of cars in America and it makes sense for them to spend the metric ton of money to compete in NASCAR as that is America's motorsport (although it is drastically waning in popularity) and will help them sell cars among non-xenophobes. I imagine this will have no effect on how you feel but this will be my last post defending my point of view. I will let the thread return to the topic at hand and you may go on with your everyday life.

Stopper-Looks-Left.gif


Jon
 
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Quote:


Oh boy, here we go. Since you seem to be so keen on examples and parables, bringing that up is akin to being told by a doctor that he's going to have to amputate a finger above the second knuckle, and you saying, "That's OK doc, why don't you just take the whole arm, I don't need it anyway".
laugh.gif
In other words, we still have a choice as far as automobiles are concerned in this country, UNLIKE ALL of the other consumables you've mentioned above. Yeah, that makes "perfect sense" to me.
smirk.gif





Did you ever stop to think about why the consumables I referenced are no longer available in the US? Because Americans (probably not you or anyone you know though
smirk.gif
) voted by purchasing based on price point and not amount of domestic content. Would you be willing to pay $100 for an American made T-shirt using American cotton? How about $5,000 for a 27" Non-HDTV CRT TV built using all American components? I somehow doubt it.


Quote:


I guess all of the "importees" and "globalists" like yourself (and the countless others on this board, I'm suprised your #1 loudmouth, "mokie" is not on here yet) will NEVER be happy until one can ONLY buy Nippon/foreign product here, right??(despite how much all of you claim to be free/"fair" trade proponents.




Don't assume to know how I think with only assumptions and a few paragraphs from BITOG to back it up. I never claimed to only want Nippon/Foreign products, in fact I try to make a conscious effort to buy domestic products or if that is not possible, products made under good working conditions. I shop at the farmer's market for food when it is in season, I buy shirts, pants and shoes that are more expensive but made under humane conditions (and have very few outfits because of it). That said, I am not infinitely wealthy and when it comes to car purchases I will buy the car that offers the best compromise of the aforementioned criteria as well as its quality/durability and price point. At this point in time nothing from GM, Ford, or Chrysler satisfies my needs. Look at how many GM, Ford, and Chrysler products are recommended by Consumer Reports. I think it is unfortunate that the Japanese and other countries we purchase the vast majority of our consumer goods from are such xenophibic lemmings, but how does being exactly the same as them make you somehow superior?

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You mention the JGTC letting the USDM rides into their series. This is almost as recent an occurrence as NASCAR letting TOY play. Besides, I'm SUREthat they bias the rules in favor of the JDM manufacturers to the point of making it almost impossible for the U.S. domestics to ever get on the podium, let alone win.




How is allowing the Viper to compete in 1996 after the first GTS racecar was assembled by ORECA the same as NASCAR allowing the Camry to compete more than 20 years after it appeared in the US? The Corvette also never had a chance until Pratt & Miller and GM started their partnership (not the Japanese fault) as there weren't any competitive cars available with any semblance of factory backing. Also, Corvettes are ridiculously expensive and rare in Japan due to both import tariffs and the fact that GM exports very few Corvettes anywhere much less Japan where many of the roads aren't even wide enough to allow a Corvette to drive in one lane (could we reasonably blame GM for this fact? Heck no). Both the Corvette and a Viper have won JGTC races and scored multiple podiums, the problem is that they will never be very competitive in an environment that sees the top Japanese teams spending more than $50 million per year on a two car team. If GM or Chrysler was willing to jump in and spend half this amount of money they would be instant contenders, it just doesn't make sense for them as neither sell many cars in Japan (again some can be blamed on import tax and some on car size). Toyota, however, does sell a metric ton of cars in America and it makes sense for them to spend the metric ton of money to compete in NASCAR as that is America's motorsport (although it is drastically waning in popularity) and will help them sell cars among non-xenophobes. I imagine this will have no effect on how you feel but this will be my last post defending my point of view. I will let the thread return to the topic at hand and you may go on with your everyday life.

Stopper-Looks-Left.gif


Jon




Well, good for you that you're soooo PC in your purchases. I don't trust C.R. (nor those who read/believe it) enough to use it as toilet paper, let alone a reliable source of automotive info, despite how "unbiased" they proclaim themselves.
I can say the same thing about your Japan, i.e.; they do not offer me ANYTHING for my needs, nor "price point", so that takes care of your "xenophobe" arguements. You exaggerate/inflate the costs of what we would pay for U.S. made products, so I guess I can ask; you'd be ecstatic to pay $75K+ for a Camry/Accord if/when it is ALL you can buy in this country??!!?

As far as the Vette being too wide for Nippon roads; that's quite funny when one looks at all of the GTRs/MKIVs/etc. running around over there. Not to mention all of the clowns who add Veilside/Blitz/etc. wide body kits to their already "too wide for Japan's roads" vehicles.
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Calm down Guys - lets get back to the topic please....

Is there any more news about Gibb going with Toyota next year?




I haven't heard anything more about it, my guess is that it was a rumor more based in speculation than fact. We'll see though, I would love to see Toyota with a top team to see how they would perform without a new team to blame.

Jon
 
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HondaF1Fanatic,

Now it's your turn to tell us how a company(Toyota) that imports 46% of it's cars from Japan, which would be over 1 million cars per year ,is more American than GM, Ford or Chrysler.




I never claimed that Toyota was a more American COMPANY than GM, Ford, or Chrysler so don't try to put incorrect words in my mouth. My original claim, if you actually read it before you replied, was that the Camry was as much if not more American than the SPECIFIC models it races against in NASCAR. The Ford Fusion is largely based on the Mazda 6 and the Dodge Charger is underpinned by the previous generation Mercedes-Benz E-class. I was wrong about the Monte Carlo however, it is mainly a NA design.

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And if you want to talk about Xenophobia, Japan as a nation is virtually the epitome of that word. Trust me, I could start pasting link after link of Japans' quite famous Xenophobia. To me it's a good justified reason to have a reciprocal policy of keeping them out of traditional American racing.




This attitude shows that you are obviously believe that two wrongs making a right. If you see someone steal something from you, do you believe it is justified to steal from them? I used to think that way.......in preschool. Also, if you actually looked at the JGTC which is Japan's version of NASCAR you would see multiple Corvettes and Dodge Vipers racing in it, so much for the Japanese being more xenophobic than us.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/21/automo...nyt&emc=rss

"In 2006, 46 percent of Toyota’s vehicles were imported from Japan compared with 38.4 percent in 2005 and 37 percent in 2004.

Toyota sold 2.54 million vehicles in the United States last year, a record for the automaker, which passed DaimlerChrysler to rank third behind General Motors and the Ford Motor Company. It has forecast that its American sales will rise to 2.68 million this year.

Toyota accounts for 9 percent of automotive manufacturing jobs in the United States and roughly 16 percent of the vehicle market, while G.M. accounts for 29 percent of the jobs and about 24 percent of the market, Mr. Doyle said.

“We lose 10 for every one job that they bring,” Mr. Doyle said.

And despite the start of Camry production here, Toyota will still import 60,000 Camrys from Japan this year, Mr. Lentz said. Along with that, Toyota also expects to import about 70,000 more Priuses than in 2006, when it sold just under 107,000 in the United States."




In this group of info, you quote a member of the Level Field Institute, a group founded by retired UAW workers to try to discredit the fact that the number of "foreign" cars being built in the US is constantly growing while the number of "domestic" cars being built in the US continues to fall as GM, Ford, and Chrysler outsource production to lower costs so the can compete with the so called foreign companies all the while being saddled with ridiculous legacy costs. This method of argument would be similar to me quoting a member of the Tobacco lobby showing information that smoking doesn't cause cancer. If a RJR lobbyist told you cigarettes weren't addictive and used unverifiable statistics to "prove" it, would you believe them?

Also, you may have missed the main point of the article. The majority of the increase in foreign produced Toyotas being imported to the US are hybrids, something that no US manufacturer has yet to start mass producing (GM's pseudo hybrids don't count as they are not true hybrids and Ford's hybrids use licensed Toyota technology). The battery and transmission technology used by the Prius, Camry Hybrid and Highlander hybrid is simply not available at a reasonable cost from any US manufacturer yet. Americans are voting with their wallets by buying hybrids in ever increasing numbers so Toyota had to import more to keep up with demand.

I am sure you will continue to find ways to justify your myopic and xenophobic view of the world all the while typing on your computer (where are the vast majority of the components for that made?), watching your television (How about that?) and wearing clothes (hrm, wonder where they are made?). It makes sense to me.
smirk.gif


Jon




IMHO JGTC > Nascar, in so many aspects. It's actual racing, not just driving in an oval. No offense to any Nascar fans intended. Just my opinion.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_9BQeCQiF0g&mode=related&search=
 
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According to ESPN, JGR will announce next Wednesday the switch to Toyota. It's also interesting that DEI is concerned that the new Chevrolet engine information is also going to Toyota.

As a side note, Toyota is willing to ante up $40mil to Alonso to drive a Toyota F1 car next year. We will see.
 
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According to ESPN, JGR will announce next Wednesday the switch to Toyota. It's also interesting that DEI is concerned that the new Chevrolet engine information is also going to Toyota.

As a side note, Toyota is willing to ante up $40mil to Alonso to drive a Toyota F1 car next year. We will see.




Alonso won't go to a team that isn't going to be a championship contender in the near future. IMO his only real options are to stick with McLaren or go back to Renault.

Jon
 
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A new Ford cylinder was approved in 2004, the year Rousch dominated. No need to give Ford squat. I don't know why you guys keep saying Ford has an old cylinder, it simply isn't the case. Some would say that is why they dominated all the 2 mile tracks, and most of the 1.5 milers too, in 04-05 and even 06. The only reason Chevy has won races was because of the gains they achieved in the aero department.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/us30439.htm

http://www.nascar.com/2004/news/headlines/cup/05/14/friday_notes/index.html

Link just before the final approval- http://www.fordracing.com/news/detail/?article=23665&flashcheck=1




Ford just got an updated cylinder head, not cylinder. The complaint from the Ford folks is that their block is much heavier than the Chevy block. Just my 2 cents.
 
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According to ESPN, JGR will announce next Wednesday the switch to Toyota. It's also interesting that DEI is concerned that the new Chevrolet engine information is also going to Toyota.




That's a legitimate concern. It's not like TOY teams have NEVER been caught cheating before.

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As a side note, Toyota is willing to ante up $40mil to Alonso to drive a Toyota F1 car next year. We will see.




Hopefully, even THAT will NOT be enough to end the embarrassment that is the Nippon Giant's F1 effort!!
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You can bet that JGR will be excluded from GM meetings dealing with the technical aspects of the GM NASCAR program for the rest of the year. JGR will be on it's own until the Toyota money kicks in, and that amount of money will not be chump change!
 
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