RLI 5W-40 Oil Experiment

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JAG

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First, here are some previous test results I obtained. It shows the tight control I keep over the testing.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...rt=all&vc=1

Now I'll discuss the RLI Oil Experiment. I heated it for 12 hours at approximately 340F in an anodized aluminum cup; same for M1 0W-40 as a reference. I measured volatility at 1, 2, and 12 hours. The M1 0W-40 was less volatile. My notes are at home right now...from memory, the M1 lost 0.07 grams in one hour while RLI lost 0.1 grams. Not a big deal and that M1 is less volatile that almost every other oil I've tested. All oil's volatility drops as time goes on in these tests. Between 2 and 12 hours, RLI oil volatility dropped much more than the M1 oil's volatility dropped. This might indicate oxidative thickening of the RLI oil. I'd have to measure volatility at each hour and then calculate the rate of change of the volatility to get a better idea of this.

A simple crude viscosity test (at room temp) done by tilting the two cups of oils and comparing how fast the oil flows showed that the RLI oil started the test more viscous than M1, and at 12 hours, the difference between the viscosity of the two oils increased. I can't attribute it purely to oxidative thickening without a doubt because perhaps the VIIs in M1 "cracked", lowering the viscosity. More testing could answer this.

The real reason for testing is for oxidation and deposit formation. Neither oil left any deposits in the cups. The odd thing is that the RLI oil seemed to separate out quite a few clear "globules". They could be seen floating in the oil while it was in the cup. I poured the contents onto a folded piece of paper. The clear globules did not absorb into the paper nearly as fast as the rest of the oil. Some still were not absorbed into the paper 1 week later. That could be explained by the globules being oxidized/thickened HOBS oil that were not in solution with the rest of the oil. A picture of this is shown below.

Even before I heated the oil while it was in the cup, when I shook the oil, it looked like it was not a complete solution. I saw some color gradients...clear vs. dark brown. But the clear regions were not semi-solid globules like showed up at the end of this test. I think the former turned into the latter during the testing.

A test length of twelve hours in these cups without any catalysts in the oil is not nearly as severe as some other tests I've done.

RLIOilBlotter.jpg
 
what was the batch number of the 5w40 you got?
I am gonna try to find to see what batch mine was, i didnt see separation when i shook oil in glass beaker
 
Thanks JAG. I for one want to see more UOA's in various conditions/engines before I get all excited about this oil.
smile.gif
 
It amazes me we have so called enginneers and scientists on this board that are completely convinced of something after only one data set of UOA's on a particular engine. That is not very scientific if you ask me. When any new break through theory emerges in the scientific community the first thing that other people do is look for holes to shoot in the theory to really see if it stands up to them.
 
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It amazes me we have so called enginneers and scientists on this board that are completely convinced of something after only one data set of UOA's on a particular engine. That is not very scientific if you ask me.





OT:Does this include your 1 time use of ASM
 
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OT:Does this include your 1 time use of ASM






Yes it does.

I've seen numerous UOA's of the Honda 2.4 and it does well on any oil. I'm using ASM now for extended drains. I might use it again depending on oil consumption.

My point was we have only seen one grade of this oil in one engine type so far so lets be patient, thats all. In time we'll see if its the real deal or not.
 
I don't know the batch number.

The aluminum cups were cleaned with dishwashing liquid, completely rinsed with water, then completely dried prior to the test.
 
It probably contains significant Group III which is why the volatility is high.
 
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It probably contains significant Group III which is why the volatility is high.




Buster, it's this kind of post that drives Terry nuts. You simply can't make a determination of the base oil constituents by looking at the volatility--especially a test like this where it's done in a kitchen in an oven.

When you post a statement like this you're being irresponsible, IMO.
 
You probably can't, but it "usually" does give some indication. Look at all the fully PAO/Ester based oils and they all have a Noack of no higher than 7%, usually. I think this is why Mobil stopped showing Noack when they went to Grp III.

I think the RLI PDS are out of date. I spoke with the formulator a few weeks ago and I do know it contains other synthetic bases. Could now be PAO/Hobs. who knows...

Regardless though, it's the end performance that matters so it really doesn't matter.
 
It takes a lot more time at this temperature tested above to get deposits in "good oils" without any catalysts (iron, copper, gas, water, etc) in the oils. I stopped the above test at 12 hours because of what I found.

Here's a recent time vs temp history in a recent ~24 hour test on M1 0W-40 and M1 10W-30 High Mileage. There were no catalysts in these samples either.

6 hrs at 340F
3.67 hrs at 375F
9.75 hrs at 300F
4.5 hrs at 400F

Neither oil showed any deposits, even when put in the freezer for hours to lower the solubility of the oils. I've saved these oil samples in their test cups. They will undergo further thermal torture.
 
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Historically, the primary drawback of conventional vegetable oils is their lower oxidative stability relative to mineral oils and certain synthetic esters. Today, with recent advances in Hybrid Breeding technology, it is now possible to alter the physical properties of conventional vegetable oils by changing fatty acid profiles. One specific example pertaining to vegetable lubricants is the improvement of Oxidative Stability by increasing the Oleic content in various vegetable oils.

Since 1991, Renewable Lubricants, Inc. (RLI) has pioneered an extensive research and development program focused on vegetable oil based lubricants. The primary focus of this program has involved formulating biobased automotive Engine and Hydraulic oils. Recent work in the program has directed R&D toward Food Grade Lubricants, Industrial Fluids, Penetrating Lubricants, Corrosion Inhibitors/Preservative Oils, and Transformer Fluids. RLI has collaborated with many companies and organizations throughout this R&D program, including Lubrizol, Penn State, USDA, DOD, DOI, DOE, USB, NCGA, and Dow AgroSciences.

RLI has developed patented and proprietary additives demonstrating exceptional performance in High Oleic Base Stocks (HOBS) as lubricant base stocks. RLI's additive technology, Stabilized™, provides a low cost method for stabilizing vegetable base lubricants for high and low temperature Engine, Transmission, Hydraulic, Gear, and Grease applications.


 
When you add cataylsts, you should add them ice-cold to the hot oil. Quenching a freezing penny into scortching oil might produce some deposit fall-out.
 
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