Lexus ES330: What's to look out for?

[Benzadmiral]

My venerable '97 MB C230 may be on its way out, folks. The transmission has been misbehaving for the last month or so, even after fluid and filter change. The dealer diagnoses it as a controller unit -- though they cannot guarantee that the $1500 repair will solve the problem! My regular independent mechanic agrees that, given the iffy nature of the proposed solution, it may not be worth my while to replace the controller.

So. My eye has been caught by a 2004 Lexus ES330 on the local dealer's website. Of course we've all heard wonderful things about Lexus. How about in day-to-day living with one?

This one has almost 100K on it. I plan to look it over, and have my regular guy, who also works on Lexus, inspect it if I like it. How is it on gas? (Edmund's website reports 20/29, not too much lower than my 11-year-old 4-cyl.) Is mid-grade OK? And can I change the oil without jacking the car up and wrestling off a belly pan? Any known issues?

Any comments welcome!

 

[ekpolk]

Nothing against the ES at all, but do remember what it really is -- the Super Camry. Lexus does add a lot of nice stuff to the car, but at the "skeletal" level, it's really very much the same thing as an I-4 Camry CE that would have sold new for well south of $20k.

The 3.3L V-6 in this car is the 3MZ-FE, the larger displacement version of the long-produced but now gone 1MZ 3.0L engine. The 3MZ is not one of the "sludge period" engines, though it is a relative, and how much "guilt by association" you wish to assign is up to you. My main concern with this engine would be that it has belt driven cams, and it IS an interference design, so you'd really want to make sure that the belts are current before you buy. I loved the two 1MZ powered cars I had; the engine is very smooth and pleasant to drive.

I assume since it's almost up to 100k, that it's not Certified Used? If not, I'd look to see if they have similar cars that are Toyota/Lexus certified. That gives you a great wty (better in some respects than the new wty) with corresponding peace of mind.

But if you're going with the odds, that car is probably a very good bet, given the overall Lexus track record and reputation.

 

[Benzadmiral]

The trouble is, I've been spoiled. The Camry looks sort of unfinished inside after my years with Benzes. So do most cars young enough to have a warranty on them that I can afford comfortably. If a Lexus is CPO, it's too pricey for me right now!

How often must that cam belt be changed?

 

[Tosh]

Find a better Mercedes mechanic, and don't give up on a loved one so easily.

 

[mcrn]

Just another thing to think about is that Lexus is front wheel drive. If you have had Mercedes for a long time you are used to a rear wheel drive. Another Lexus to consider used is the GS series. It is a true Lexus chassis and is rear wheel drive.

 

[97tbird]

or look for a 1998-2001 SC400/SC300

 

[Benzadmiral]

Oh, Tosh, I'm not giving up on the little gold beast just yet. After driving it home yesterday and to work just now, I still find it brisk, fun, and solid. And the transmission is behaving fine, for now.

There are not a lot of knowledgeable Benz mechanics down here in The Sinkhole of the World. I've been going to this one guy for five years, and he's always tried to *save* me money. He can replace the controller, sure, but the dealer's diagnostic services are better . . . and they can't swear the expensive repair will fix the problem. Another recommended shop does work on these electronic 5-speeds, but he too agrees it could be a crapshoot.

I may need ball joints and tie rod ends -- which, at 87K miles, is not surprising. If I decide to go with said repairs, and if the transmission continues to behave, I may keep the car for a while.

(I wouldn't mind trying a GS. But the SCs are darned hard to find, and even harder to find in good condition.)

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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or look for a 1998-2001 SC400/SC300

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Bingo. If you're coming from a Benz I think you'd be much happier with a RWD Lexus. Don't discount looking at the the 2nd generation GS models. Unlike the ES, these are not based on any (US) Toyota model.

 

[Benzadmiral]

I've ridden in, but never driven, a GS. I test drove a previous generation ES300 (okay, but not great), and (best of all) a couple of the big LS400s.

My Lexus dealer saleslady, who sold me the Benz 3 years ago, has had a GS400 for several years. It has 165K on it, and while she admits that the gas mileage is not great, she still loves it. I've never been moved by the exterior styling except in certain colors, but the interior is almost as nice as the ES.

Is it *very* firm-riding? MBs are good at that, but when you live in a state whose roads are the very finest of Third-World quality, being able to "feel the road" is not necessarily a good thing. If the car is solid and tight with no rattles, then sportier suspension doesn't matter as much.

Net research tells me that the 2002-present ES cars often have problematic transmissions. How about the GS?

 

[BGK]

The ES is a very nice boring Camry. I'd look for one with lower miles and a factory warranty or buy a lower mileage similar Camry for the same money.

 

[The Critic]

Quote:

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Net research tells me that the 2002-present ES cars often have problematic transmissions.

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Not true. If anything, the 2002-present ES cars have more reliable transmissions than its predecessors. Most of the Lexus transmission problems were were with the 99-01 ES300 and 98-03 RX300 due to the U140E 4-speed transmission's tendency to cook fluid. The U150/U151E 5-speed transmissions used in the 2002-present ES cars have no known mechanical problems. Any transmission complaints are related to the DBW lag that is common with all Toyotas.

The Timing Belt must be replaced every 90k miles on the 3MZ-FE engine. Toyota dealerships will do this (Belt only) for about $250.

 

[Benzadmiral]

The Critic, I based my comment (prematurely) on the number of incidents posted to Edmunds.com. They make it sound like the drive-by-wire lag is dangerous, and that Lexus is denying there is any problem. I am of course taking that with a grain of salt, maybe even a whole salt lick. Hey, I haven't even driven the car yet! But I'm glad to hear someone else weigh in *for* the cars.

This ES I'm considering should have had the 90K service done; I'll check the records if I get serious about it.

What about oil changes? Drain only, or can the oil be suctioned out from on top? Filter location? Because if it's really tough for me to change the oil myself, I'll go to 2x a year changes with synthetic from my regular independent mechanic, and just relax. Otherwise, I'd do an Auto-RX or maybe two!

 

[deven]

Well I have owned a 2006 ES 330 for 1 1/2 years and well the car is boring and drives like a boat but i knew that before buying but I was looking for reliability, comfort and luxury. Other than a few rattles I am very happy with the car. The transmission in this car will last forever but its how it behaves thats faulty. For example, slowing down but not coming to a complete stop, then re-accelerating, there is a hesitation in the transmission and causes the car to buck or lurch forward. Its more an annoyance than anything and my car fortunately does not have a pronounced hesitation. The 2005 model I test drove had a much worse hesitation problem otherwise i would have bought that car.

FYI, the filter can be found in the middle under the front bumper. It has a splash shield so its not visible to the naked eye.