Double-Super-Secret 5W-40 Audi RS4 Racing Oil

[Pablo]

NMI

 

[Jim 5]

It sounds like this oil (or one in a 5w-30/20) grade would be good in hondas and acuras which are famous for fuel dilution.

Is it only available in a 5w-40?

 

[buster]

No, they make a 0w-20, one that I'm interested in. They told me that I could run the oil as long as the manufacturer drain intervals call for so 5k-10k miles for me.

 

[maczter]

Hmm...going to have to keep this in mind for my Direct Injected Turbo Mazdaspeed 3.

...and the whole getting away from big petroleum companies and supporting 100% American companies things doesn't hurt either (where the products are equal or superior to foreign based and/or foreign sourced products).

 

[Terry]

GMorg, NO hydrogenated bases or "synfluids".

As a matter of fact the breakout that I was just authorized to by the patent owners/holders at [Link removed] is

Roughly

+/-

30% BIO HOBS ( this stuff has a VI of 210-240) derived from hybridization NOT GMO's, you could pop corn in it and sell it in Europe and they do!

25% Additive pack, see patents from PennState Study. Awesome add pack patent.

35% Synthetic component varies depending on formula targets

We reduced wear in the RS4 with NO deposit formation and have taken the oil drains out way past the failure mode levels of the other "accepted" oils. Those conventional synthetics are being run factory recommended drains (10,000) most likely with 5% fuel dilute or more.

 

[Terry]

I am about to begin using the BIOSYN 0w20 oils in my own cars. I already use the 10w30 BIOSYN HD and love it in the 302 V8.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

---

GMorg, NO hydrogenated bases or "synfluids".

As a matter of fact the breakout that I was just authorized to by the patent owners/holders at www.renewablelube.com

---

So is the oil used in the Audi that is the subject of this thread a product of Renewable Lubricants, Inc.?

 

[Terry]

With the ongoing and incredibly close consult/ testing of Dyson Analysis.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

---

With the ongoing and incredibly close consult/ testing of Dyson Analysis.

---

Yeah, I went back and read all the posts in more depth and figured that out.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Personally, I'd much rather help support a small independent company with a superior product than international big oil

---

Agree 100%.

Unlike Amsoil, these oils truly are American.

---

Brad Penn is 100% made in the USA. The only refinery in the country that refines crude solely from wells in the US (PA, NY, OH, WV).

 

[Terry]

Didn't know that, very interesting. G-Man Do you have a VOA reference of their oils?

 

[oilyriser]

I remember reading about Purdue U work on raw canola-castor-jojoba mixtures, and less friction or wear than mineral based oils.
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-029.html
But that was a long time ago.
How much for a quart of this 0w-20?

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

---

Didn't know that, very interesting. G-Man Do you have a VOA reference of their oils?

---

Sent you a PM. The commitment that ARG made when they bought the Bradford refinery from Witco/Kendall (for $1!!!) was that they would (1) keep the refinery in operation; and (2) purchase and refine only Penn Grade crude from wells/suppliers in PA, NY, OH, and WV.

 

[4esorselrahc]

Quote:

---

1) Fuel dilution has many causes. You cannot say categorically that it is due to sloppy programming or rich mixture. With DI engines, fuel dilution is primarily due to the fundamental design of the combustion chamber's fuel distribution pattern, and the ring pack design. There is ample research and engine design data regarding this, and fuel dilution in GDI engines is a topic of serious research in the automotive industry. In our case, these are racing rings, thin and light, capable of an 8250 rpm red line, and the combustion chamber uses a tumble/swirl distribution. The engine was designed to also run in the lean-burn stratified mode, which is perfect for allowing any fuel dilute to cook off, and given us a 25 mpg 420 HP V8 engine. Unfortunately, stratified mode is disabled in the US market, because of the high sulfur content of our fuel, and our mileage is reduced to 21 mpg.

It is true that mixture richness plays a part. However, most mixture richness these days is required of engines, because of emissions standards. Manufacturers do not have much of a choice here. If you look at how the ECU fuel maps are derived for MED 9 ECUs, you'll find that the programming is far from sloppy. Some highly advanced testing and numerical optimization algorithms are used in the design of the ECU operating space. In addition, this engine is under full closed-loop lambda control at all times. I have looked at air/fuel ratios under all normal operating conditions, and they are quite reasonable.

2) Define "broken-in". I'd consider an engine with over 10K miles on it sufficiently broken in for the purposes of testing. Another way to define broken-in would be to track cylinder wall wear, until it reaches an asymptotic value. In our case, Aluminum and Silicon would be our indicators. However, Silicon is the more accurate indicator in this engine, since the rings ride on glass walls. Clearly, by 8K miles we have reached the asymptote.

As I mentioned earlier, I have plenty of other intermediate oil data, on my engine, and on other engines, that substantiate the dramatic decreases seen with the mystery oil.

Plenty of back-to-back runs were performed with Motul. Other owners have back-to-back runs with Amsoil Euro and Castrol Syntec, both 5W-40, that are consistent with what I have seen with my engine.

3) Yes, that would be Renewable Lubes French Fry oil, as I lovingly call it. However, it is a custom formulation with additives that only Terry and the formulator know about. I'm just a simple test mule.

---

Wow! Thanks so much for this excellent explanation of fuel dilution.

 

[sprintman]

Terry the thing that stands out above everything else on this thread is the viscosity. 5W40 the international standard for syns except the U.S. I think the world knows something. 0W40 may just be stretching it a tad to far IMO. Old BITOGER's like me (and you?) will never forget Tyrolkids UOA's of RL 5W40 in a very highly stressed turbo engine. RL handled it with ease. Nice post this. But I still wonder what happened with the VP Racing Fuels oils you were playing with?

 

[RI_RS4]

Quote:

---

With the ongoing and incredibly close consult/ testing of Dyson Analysis.

---

I thought I'd post some of the ongoing results of that close consult and testing that Terry has provided. These are oil analysis results for 6 different Audi RS4 engines with greater 10K miles on the clock, and show the significant reduction in wear due to the Renewable Lubes formulation. This oil is performing incredibly in one of the toughest engine environments around.

Mileage Mileage on Oil .. ........ Oil .................... Iron(ppm) ... Vehicle #

10820 ...... 3050 ......... Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 ... 23 ....... Vehicle 2
11896 ...... 2923 ......... Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 ... 18 ....... Vehicle 1
12100 ...... 7000 .......... Castrol Syntec 5W-40 ...... 46 ....... Vehicle 3
12803 ...... 2803 .......... Castrol Syntec 5W-40 ...... 19 ....... Vehicle 4
16554 ...... 1488 ............ RLI Biosyn 5W-40 ........... 7 ....... Vehicle 1
16780 ...... 1906 ............ RLI Biosyn 5W-40 ........... 7 ....... Vehicle 5
17000 ...... 4500 ............ Mobil 1 0W-40 ............. 37 ....... Vehicle 6
18061 ...... 2995 ............ RLI Biosyn 5W-40 ........... 9 ....... Vehicle 1
20226 ...... 5160 ........... RLI Biosyn 5W-40 .......... 10 ....... Vehicle 1

Kudos to Terry! I cannot speak highly enough about the knowledge and guidance he has provided in this project.

 

[buster]

Very impressive results. Thanks for sharing. Motul actually did very well. FWIW, Motul 300V is 95% Ester, the oil used above is PAO/Ester. You have a good thing going here with RLI/Dyson so I wouldn't change a thing.

RI, do you have the Amsoil numbers?

 

[RI_RS4]

Amsoil had about 30% higher iron wear. Ring and soft metal wear also trended higher. But, it was still better than Castrol and M1. Unfortunately, the numbers don't compare well, since our Amsoil car was up in Denver, and tended to run lower dilution, due to altitude. However, RLI has consistently shown considerably better numbers over the same mileage intervals when he switched.

Motul was fighting very hard up until the point that it would crash due to dilution. Right around 3-4K miles, fuel dilution, acids, and water absorption would skyrocket as the oil crashed. Even with some fresh oil exchange it would never recover.

 

[buster]

From their website, the Lubrizol bench tests showed it to be a very good oil. They use copper (500ppm) to help with oxidation. Does this oil use ZDDP? I'm just wondering how a petroleum based non-API SM synthetic would do in comparison?

 

[VeeDubb]

RI_RS4
Great results and very relevant for me as my 1.8T just showed serious fuel dilution. I'm just about to pull the trigger and order some RLI 5w-40. The only thing holding me back is I have to decide whether I want jeopardize my extended warranty because VW dealers are notorious for finding reasons not to pay up. Have you thought about warranty issues for your RS4, which I presume is still under warranty?