High Lead in 1995 PSD UOA

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The following is the comments I received in my last UOA report from Blackstone...naturally I am concerned "Lead increased again in the used oil from your Power Stroke and it's now high enough to think you could have something developing at the bearings. All other wear still looks good and the oil was free of any fuel dilution or anti-freeze, so we aren't sure what caused the higher lead. The TBN
was still strong at 9.5, so the oil has plenty of active additive left. Soot levels were low and insolubles
were fine at 0.3% showing good oil filtration. Suggest keeping a close eye on your oil pressure and
check back in another ~5,000 miles to monitor."

Since I haven't figured out how to post the actual used oil report I'll just have to list the numbers for you.

Aluminum 1
Chromium 1
Iron 8
Copper 3
Lead 11
Tin 1
Molybdenum 289
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 3
Boron 9
Silicon 8
Calcium 3402
Magnesium 10
Phosphorus 1241
Zinc 1410
Barium 0

Fuel %
I am currently working on installing a 'real' pressure gage so I can monitor the actual oil pressures. I am using the Baldwin B-164 as my by-pass filter and I installed it pretty normal for a PSD. That is I hooked up the input to the by-pass off the F/F oil filter header and the return to a plug in the block next to the F/F header. The oil I used was Schaeffer's 5W-40. Any and all comments would be appreciated.
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Griz95
 
How many miles are on this engine? What kind of service does it see, like is it a tow rig, grocery getter or work truck? Are there any power mods done such as a chip or similar?

Could be just a particle streak and lead may go down on your next OCI. Does the engine sound any different than normal such may be an indication of a bent rod which would cause irregular bearing wear and increase lead numbers in the oil. Are you using any fuel additives or alternative fuels?
 
The engine has approximately 114,600 miles on it. I would say the engine is will maintained. I have been changing both oil filters every 3K miles since I installed the Baldwin by-pass filter. The oil had only 6.7K miles on it. I tow a 5K travel trailer about 3K miles a year on the average. Usually during the fall months. Other than towing I wouldn't say it sees any hard use. I am using a Super Chip programmer set to Safe Tow mode. The exhaust has been opened up with a 3" down-pipe, 4" exhaust and the intake is the Tymar kit. I haven't noticed any change in the way the engine sounds. I do use Diesel Fuel supplement by Power Service. No alternative fuels...just #2 diesel.

Griz95
 
I'd try an HDEO that doesn't contain a lot of moly and see if the lead numbers come back down. I think you may be seeing a reaction between the add pack in this particular oil and the bearing overlays....

TS
 
1ppm/600 miles isnt that bad.

unsulfated moly compounds do cause copper/lead issues, so going to a lower moly oil may do the trick, but it doesnt really look like its needed.

there is also a chance it could be caused by the fuel additive.
 
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1ppm/600 miles isnt that bad.

unsulfated moly compounds do cause copper/lead issues, so going to a lower moly oil may do the trick, but it doesnt really look like its needed.



All the other additive numbers are close to Mobil Delvac 5w40 numbers. So running Delvac instead of Schaeffers would be a good way to determine if the moly is causing elevated lead readings.
 
from the schaeffers 9000 reports on diesel engines i have seen, the moly does not cause accelerated corrosion of lead or copper, so i am more inclined to suspect the fuel additive, especially if it contains poly ether amines
 
Does anyone think the 5W-40 is too thin of an oil for a 1995 PSD? I just drained the Schaeffer's and changed both oil filters. I put back in Delo 400. I noticed Delo has changed this oil a little since the last time I used it. I hope that doesn't become an issue.
I am a littled confused on the fuel additive issue. Does some additives have lead in them or are you suggesting the fuel additive causes bearing wear?
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This is a diesel. On gas engines, FI cleaners have PEA. If fuel dilution is an issue, the PEA will also clean the bearings and make wear look higher. So, don't run Gumout Regane or Chevron Techron in your diesel!

Powerservice is a great additive. Feel free to use it. IMO, diesels should ALWAYS run a fuel additive that cleans, improves combustion, lubricates,..and during the winter prevent gelling.

The numbers here are nothing to worry about. TBN is very strong and the oil could've gone twice as far. Total wear is minimal for such a big engine that has done some towing.

Bouncing among oils will also cause UOA PPM fears. Stick with one oil always and run it 2-3 times consecutively before drawing a UOA conclusion on the oil.

What oil did you use before this run?

Oil has 6.7k on it. Did you changes the filters at 3k and 6k? How much oil is used to top off after filter change?

Considering intake(usually intake don't filter well see the Si number), exhaust, chip mods, and towing on this run(?), the engine looks excellent.
 
What was the EOT viscosity of the oil in centistokes or SUS units?

A lot of SAE 5w-40's will shear significantly in this engine, due to the HEUI injectors. This can cause elevated bearing wear after the shearing has occurred.

TS
 
unDummy...
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Bouncing among oils will also cause UOA PPM fears. Stick with one oil always and run it 2-3 times consecutively before drawing a UOA conclusion on the oil.



I panicked...thought maybe the thin Schaeffer's oil was causing a problem. I fell strongly that Schaeffer's 5W-40 was a good oil. I'll run Delo-400 for a while and then go back to Schaeffer's.
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What oil did you use before this run?



I was using Amsoil 15W-40. The very first UOA with this oil came back great...the next UOA the lead started increasing to 7 ppm. That is one of the reasons I decided to switch oils and by-pass filtration systems. I suspected a problem with my Amsoil dual by-pass set-up.
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Oil has 6.7k on it. Did you changes the filters at 3k and 6k? How much oil is used to top off after filter change?



I changed both filters at 107K and again at 111K. I believe I added 3-4 quarts during that time frame. Mostly to fill up the new oil filters.
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Considering intake(usually intake don't filter well see the Si number), exhaust, chip mods, and towing on this run(?), the engine looks excellent.


No chips mods...I am using a Super Chip programmer set to Safe Tow. I towed a 5K travel trailer roughly 3K miles during this time frame also.
Griz95
 
Although HEUI engines are hard on oil, the Schaeffer's 5w40 is a great oil and has returned good UOA's in these engines before. It could be that the Amsoil may have stirred up some gunk and caused a false bearing wear indication. This is similar to what people see in gaspots when going to some synthetics, especially RedLine.

How long do you run an OCI? I'd run two OCI's of the Delo and see what lead does and get a new base line. Then switch back to Schaeffer or any other oil you want and and see what happens. The silicone isn't elevated so I don't think dirt is an issue here. I also don't see anywhere you have a problem or failure so to speak. You've got good oil and filters and don't have the fuel cranked way up so the only thing that will give high lead numbers should be something simple and not harmful. Really with a truck in this good a shape a bearing failure is unlikely unless it's a MFG defect and I don't see numbers high enough to even begin to go down that road.

I'd keep running your PowerService fuel additive as it's excellent for replacing the lubricity that ULSD has lost. As long as you are not overdosing I don't think the PS has much if anything to do with your lead numbers.
 
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How long do you run an OCI? I'd run two OCI's of the Delo and see what lead does and get a new base line. Then switch back to Schaeffer or any other oil you want and and see what happens.


Not sure what OCI means so I am guessing it stands for Oil Change Interval. If that's true then for the Delo-400 I plan on changing the oil and both filters at 3-4K. With Schaeffer's I was going around 10K before I would change oil. I was changing the filters at 3K-4K.
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The silicone isn't elevated so I don't think dirt is an issue here. I also don't see anywhere you have a problem or failure so to speak.


The only engine problem I have had was a couple of injectors. When two of them started showing problems I had all eight replaced. That was at 92K miles. That was shortly after my first UOA report from Blackstone which was good. Other than that it has mostly been maintenance and upgrades.
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Thanks 1040 WreckerMan for your comments. I really do appreciate every one's advise on this forum. Obviously there is a lot to learn here from very knowledgeable people.

Griz95
 
Yes, OCI stands for oil change interval. I run Delo 4K in my personal truck with no bypass but from UOA's I could run it to 7500 without a problem. There are several UOAs for my truck posted here. It's a 7.3L SuperDuty, basically the same thing you have. Replacing all eight injectors was a good move, hopefully you put in Alliant injectors instead of remans, but it seems either way it's working fine.

It's a bit early to get worked up about the numbers. 11 PPM isn't a bad number by any means. I wouldn't worry until I saw double that number. The lower the number the better obviously. No big deal just yet, the numbers should come down after a couple OCI's. Just keep an eye on it.
 
1040 WreckerMan...Okay, for now I'll stay with Delo until after my next UOA in 5K miles (suggested by Blackstone). I still plan to stay with my 3K-4K miles change interval with Delo. Hopefully when I get my courage back up I'll switch back to synthetic oil again. I prefer not to be changing oil. I had the new injectors installed. I 'believe' H&H diesel said they were actually made by CAT for the PSD. I can't seem to find the receipt right now so I can't verify that. Thanks for the vote of confidence in my truck. I was really sweating bullets there for a while
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Griz95
 
H&H diesel are good people, I've had them do a lot of pump and injector work for big HP Cummins Big Cams I've built. I'll be sending them another PT pump and Top Stops for an NTC440 next week if all goes well. I'm sure they gave ya a good product regardless of who's label was on the injectors.

Originally CAT did build the injectors for Navistar, in fact the HEUI fuel system was brought to market by CAT. First it was used on their own engines, and later licensed and used by Navistar among others. A while back Allaint started building HEUI injectors as well. I've bought quite a few sets of Allaints as they are good quality, but a bit less expensive. You might also give a call to Mike Sateren(SP?) at The Power Shop next time you need something, they have a good line of performance parts. They have decent guys working there for pickup stuff. I've had them install some parts when I didn't have time.

As I said, I wouldn't get real worried yet. If lead continues to trend up then you do have a problem developing, but I don't think you'll have a problem in the long term. Keep up with the good oil change routine you have and that engine will go 500,000. I'd stay on top of the ATF changes, those E4ODs aren't the greatest in world (been through 5 of 'em in my last 2 work trucks).
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1040 WreckerMan...
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I'd stay on top of the ATF changes, those E4ODs aren't the greatest in world (been through 5 of 'em in my last 2 work trucks).



I am well aware of the problems with the E4OD. I thought that would become a problem before the engine
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Griz95
 
did you ever consider that your average 3k OCI may be why your shedding so much lead now. Think about it. Maybe there is some truth to changeing your oil to often will cause higher wear numbers.
 
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did you ever consider that your average 3k OCI may be why your shedding so much lead now. Think about it. Maybe there is some truth to changing your oil to often will cause higher wear numbers.


For this UOA only the filters were changed every 3K. The oil had 6,700 miles on it when the UOA was taken. Since the last UOA, I did change the oil and filters. I am now using Delo 400 and pay to run it until the next UOA at 5K.

Griz95
 
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