PP 5W30, 3K OCI, 4.7L 2000 Toyota Tundra

[INDYMAC]

Blackstone Labs
2000 Toyota Tundra V-8 (2UZ-FE)
128,042 miles
3,125 mile OCI
Pure One oil filter
NAPA Gold air filter
Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 SM oil used (new formula-non EOP)
Previous UOA's done:
114,973 miles, MaxLife syn 10W30 SL, 5K mile OCI
98,960 miles, MaxLife syn 5W30 SL, 5K OCI

Blackstone's report:

Element/PP5W30/ML10W30/ML5W30/Universal Averages
Aluminum/1/1/2/2
Chromium/0/0/1/0
Iron/3/1/5/6
Copper/2/2/3/4
Lead/8/9/12/2
Tin/0/2/1/0
Moly/49/223/204/58
Nickel/0/0/1/0
Manganese/0/0/0/1
Silver/0/0/0/0
Titanium/0/0/0/0
Potassium/0/0/0/1
Boron/26/7/0/60
Silicon/10/10/9/13
Sodium/2/0/3/10
Calcium/2642/2836/2826/2239
Magnesium/13/11/20/125
Phosphorus/640/688/731/682
Zinc/746/795/808/806
Barium/0/6/0/0
SUS viscosity @210F
/59.7(56-63)/66.2(59-65)/63.9(56-63)
Flash Point/365/>355
Fuel%/ Anti-freeze%/0.0%
Water/0.0%
Insolubles%/0.2/
Blackstone's comments:
JACK: Wear metals read close to what they did in your last sample. However, the wear rate (ppm/mile)
increased and that is a possible sign of some excess wear developing. The universal averages for typical
wear metals in oil from the Toyota 4.7L are based on a 5600-mile oil change interval and lead should
read around 2 ppm. The bearings might be showing their age. The TBN was 4.2, plenty of active additive
left. 1.0 is too low a reading on our scale. Bearings can react differently to different oil. You may want to
try something else then check back for another look.

My comments:
I'm not sure if this is the Techron saga continuing with higher than average lead readings, or my bearings are actually starting to wear. I have re-filled with PP 5W30 and plan to run it 3-5K. My tentative plan is to switch to GC Gold then (already purchased). I've discontinued use of Techron now in both the Tundra and the G35 (40ppm lead on last UOA). We'll see what happens.

 

[Patman]

Good choice on discontinuing the use of Techron, it seems to wreak havoc on the UOAs here. Besides, I honestly don't think fuel injector cleaners are necessary with the fuels of today. Even with the fuels of the past, a lot of cars are out there on the roads that have never seen a single bottle of FI cleaner and they are running perfectly fine.

 

[Cutehumor]

honestly, I wouldn't do a UOA an oil with 3k miles with TBN on it especially with Pennzoil platinum which is excessive. But hey it's your money. Historically, these 4.7L engines are the lowest wearing engines on this board.

 

[buster]

It's possible you might need to jump up a grade to a 5w-40, but more likely than not it's the Techron.

 

[INDYMAC]

Quote:

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honestly, I wouldn't do a UOA an oil with 3k miles with TBN on it especially with Pennzoil platinum which is excessive. But hey it's your money. Historically, these 4.7L engines are the lowest wearing engines on this board.

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That's funny. Those were my thoughts almost exactly as I was filling out the Blackstone slip and writing my check. This was the 3rd fill of PP 5W30 in this engine. I planned to run it for 5K like the other two fills, but decided to change it while I was changing the gear oil in the rear differential. I also figured that since it was the 3rd fill, it might be a good time to test it for lead wear rates since Blackstone had flagged that issue while using ML syn.
As far a the TBN order goes, that was a tough choice. Do I want to be "wiser" in a week by keeping that $10 in my pocket? Or do I want to be "smarter" in a week and have a good idea how much mileage I can go with this oil in this engine if the lead readings come down? Tough choice!

 

[sky jumper]

indymac -- when did you cut out the techron? how many OCIs since? how often did you use it previously?

do keep up the UOAs. I personally would like to see what happens to your lead. you don't need TBNs with shorter OCIs, though.

 

[Cutehumor]

well the first 3k miles is when the most wear occurs, you never know. that "8" lead may of stayed there until 7-8k miles

I had a UOA almost five years ago with lead 14 in a mitsubishi mirage. engine didn't blow up when I sold it a few months ago. Whenever someone posts a "bad" UOA, were talking trouble digits in the 100's in terms of wear usually as a result of air intake leak or coolant leak.

 

[INDYMAC]

Quote:

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indymac -- when did you cut out the techron? how many OCIs since? how often did you use it previously?

do keep up the UOAs. I personally would like to see what happens to your lead. you don't need TBNs with shorter OCIs, though.

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This truck has had at least one treatment of Techron or some other FI cleaner per OCI since I can remember. I've also had the injectors and throttle bodies cleaned a couple of times professionally (I think it's a Pennzoil/Gumout 3 step system or equivalent product) where a drip, spray and bottle in the tank were used. I'm pretty sure this tested sample only had one treatment of Techron though, and that's all.
I don't plan to stay with a 3K OCI. I like 5K, but was anxious to see how the PP was doing and start fresh with a Techron free oil supply. Even though some think I wasted my money on the TBN, I don't think it hurts to know too much about the condition of the oil at 3K if I want to go to 5K.
I forgot to mention in my OP that I used zero make-up oil. This truck has never consumed any oil and doesn't turn it very dark either.

 

[sky jumper]

yeah that's a lot of fuel system cleaner, imo. I'll bet money your lead will come way down, but it will take a few OCIs. doesn't happen right away. you haven't done any damage, just those pesky elevated wear numbers we all hate, and these really aren't that bad anyway.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Well the if it is not green in color it is not GC so how about we call it Castrol Syntec 0W30. A lot of people use GC like a generic term for all Castrol 0W30 but GC is a specific product no longer sold int he USA. I think you need to try an oil that thicker then PP. The Maxlife is a lot thicker then most other oils inthe same viscosity rateing. The Castrol 0W30 might be a good choice but I bet a 5W40 would do even better. When ever lead numbers are higher then iron numbers it is usualy a viscosity issue! Toyota's do not usualy react to OTC fuel cleaners. I know in one OCI to test this I ran B12 Chemtool,Lube Control(in fuel), Lucas UCL,Redline Si-1 and I think Techron all dureing that OCI! I would never run that much fuel cleaner normaly. My lead numbers were zero. I realise that my test was a sample size of one but you would think that much fuel cleaner would have done someting!

 

[INDYMAC]

Quote:

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Well the if it is not green in color it is not GC so how about we call it Castrol Syntec 0W30. A lot of people use GC like a generic term for all Castrol 0W30 but GC is a specific product no longer sold int he USA. I think you need to try an oil that thicker then PP. The Maxlife is a lot thicker then most other oils inthe same viscosity rateing. The Castrol 0W30 might be a good choice but I bet a 5W40 would do even better. When ever lead numbers are higher then iron numbers it is usualy a viscosity issue! Toyota's do not usualy react to OTC fuel cleaners. I know in one OCI to test this I ran B12 Chemtool,Lube Control(in fuel), Lucas UCL,Redline Si-1 and I think Techron all dureing that OCI! I would never run that much fuel cleaner normaly. My lead numbers were zero. I realise that my test was a sample size of one but you would think that much fuel cleaner would have done someting!

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Thanks for the anecdote on FI cleaner, John Browning. I was not aware that The European Formula, Made in Germany, Castrol Syntec 0W30 was not considered "GC" anymore. That's good to know, and I will not refer to it as GC anymore. I'm still undecided about what to use on my next fill. I don't think the PP5W30 is really performing that poorly, the more I think about it. I've also tinkered with the 5W40 idea too, based on thicker oil being a better lube for the bottm end and bearings. Blackstone has mentioned that to me in the past as well. I have about 4300 more miles to think about it some more!

 

[unDummy]

UOA here looks great.

What pureone PN? I've had issues with pureone. Some of my engines over the years didn't like them. My recommendation is to definitely push the current PP/P1 to 5k. Another filter brand(M1, NapaGold, KN, Amsoil) can also be considered.

The 4.7's that I service usually run larger filters. Besides the required PH3614 filter, the PH3600 and PH8a filters fit easily. If you don't mind upsizing, consider the bigger pureone filters. More media, more oil capacity, and possibly less filter restriction, can only help.

Since your location isn't the north pole, a thicker oil is an option. Or, you can thicken your oil with a couple quarts of the next weight if available in your brand. PP is available in a 5w40. But, I've never found a store with it. M1, Syntec, Rotella, and Synpower 0w or 5w40's are usually easy to find at local department or auto stores.

 

[INDYMAC]

I've been using the PureOne PL 10241 oil filter. So you think flow restriction might be the problem?
I looked for the AMSOIL filter and it recommends EAO57. I also looked at their AFL 5W40 motor oil. I think that might be a good combination to try next for a few fills and then re-check with another UOA. I'll extend my intervals to 10K or one year, whichever comes first. The PP 5W40 is not available in my area, so that's out.
I just put some new Bilstein shocks on the truck, so I guess I'm planning on keeping it for awhile!
Thanks unDummy.

 

[unDummy]

Pureone upsizes would be 20195(Taurus Vulcan) and 30001(Mustang 5.0), or EA034 or EA015 in Amsoil speak!

TBN here doesn't look like it'll last pass 7.5k. I would definitely UOA in steps before going to 10k intervals. Since PP is a good oil, whats your driving style like?

The switch to a thicker oil, and a stout one at that, should help you increase the interval. Synthetic HDEOs should be considered.

Amsoil AFL looks like it will suit you well. Use it with an EA015. UOA/tbn at 7.5k(don't change oil), and then decide how far you can go!

I have nothing against Amsoil. I would think that M1 TDT or Rotella-T would also be good choices.

Also, the Am$oil filter is the real deal. You could potentially use it twice as long as other boutique filters.

Ever consider a motor-guard or frantz bypass?

 

[INDYMAC]

If I start using AMSOIL, I will shoot for 10K OCI's. If I decide to stay with PP 5W30 without the Techron FI cleaner, I'll stay with my usual 5K OCI's and get a better oil filter. Thanks for all the oil filter info.
I haven't considered a bypass (except during a recent hospital visit) yet. I was thinking just baby steps right now. Can you enlighten me on how those would benefit my situation?

 

[unDummy]

A bypass filter keeps the oil cleaner longer. If you have multiple short trips, a cellulose(toilet paper) filter would grab the moisture. It'll also increase total oil capacity which should let you run any oil longer.

If you want extended oil changes, the bypass if the way to go.

I also see no reason to change out PP before 5k.

If you do upsize the full flow filter, the extra oil capacity will also help the longer interval regardless of oil or filter brand used.

I also wouldn't blindly throw in an oil an expect it to last longer. With the Amsoil, you'll want to UOA 3/4 way through the interval.

 

[Fester]

Is the Toyota OEM filter a bypass filter? I use them exclusively on my Tundra 2002 they are fairly cheap at the dealer and they are over sized compared to the store bought filters.

 

[Fester]

Quote:

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Is the Toyota OEM filter a bypass filter? I use them exclusively on my Tundra 2002 they are fairly cheap at the dealer and they are over sized compared to the store bought filters.

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[INDYMAC]

I'm sure that the OEM filter has a by-pass valve. I used these filters (OEM) in the early days until someone on Tundrasolutions.com cut one open and said the filter media crumbled when he squeezed his fingers on it. I still have 2 of them sitting in the garage.

 

[unDummy]

Toyota OEM filter is a standard full flow filter. All standard/normal oil filters are full flow filters.

Bypass filters are usually labelled as such, have an orifice, and are usually T'd into a oil pressure source and returned straight to the pan or valve cover. This is why they are called bypass filters. There are 2 forums here for oil filters that can answer(or confuse) any filter question.