Is ELF Excellium better than GC?

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Just switched out 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5i from GC 0W-30 to ELF Excellium Full Tech 0W-30.

Even though both oils are ACEA A-3 and are the same viscosity when I look at cSt... the engine seems to rev more freely and MPG is higher with the ELF.

This is only the first impression....but I wasn't expecting this.

 

[ssj4]

Doesn't surprise me. I think one of the GC elves was disgruntled at it's lack of availability in alot of US stores and started his own brand: ELF

Now there must be elven magic in that!

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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Doesn't surprise me. I think one of the GC elves was disgruntled at it's lack of availability in alot of US stores and started his own brand: ELF

Now there must be elven magic in that!

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That's what I was thinking!

 

[buster]

Can you lay out the specs? Is this A3 HT/HS 3.5> Elf? Have you changed gasoline? **I'm convinced that the quality of gas varies greatly and impacts performance more than oils. However, if you're going from HT/HS of 3.5 to 2.8, you will notice it.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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Can you lay out the specs? Is this A3 HT/HS 3.5> Elf? Have you changed gasoline? **I'm convinced that the quality of gas varies greatly and impacts performance more than oils. However, if you're going from HT/HS of 3.5 to 2.8, you will notice it.

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Fuel was the same tank... unchanged.

Oil seems like it is as thick as GC...so it could be my imagination...but I doubt it... or the explanation might have to do with friction modifiers?

Here's some hype and some specs:

Last product born from the ELF technology in 100 % synthetic formulation, the new lubricant Excellium Full-Tech 0W-30 has been developed in the view to anticipate the major technological trends, in terms of viscosity for example.

Here is thus a product of utmost performances, integrating a transitional physical chemistry between standard technology and low SAPS one.
Perfectly integrated to to environment, it brings the answer to the car-makers newest standards :

ACEA A3/B4-04
API SL / CF
MB p. 229.5
BMW LL01
VW 502.00/505.00
GM LL A025 / B025
RENAULT gasoline and diesel
What to use ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30 for ? Whatever you search for optimum engine protection, protection against wear and oxidation, engine cleanliness or the utmost reliability whatever the weather conditions : use ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30, we garantee :


Your engine optimum longevity

A protective film broadcasting on all engines parts allows an utmost protection against wear. ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30 is thus compatible with the Valvetronic of BMW.





Extra long drain intervals

Synthetic based lubricants' properties entering in the formulation of ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30 insure an optimum resistance against oxidation






The top level performance and strengh of your engine

Your engine cleanliness is insured by the high performance detergents and dispersants especially formulated for ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30.






Easy ignition even under cold temperatures

With an optimum viscosity running till -54° C, ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30 insures an excellent quality even at low temperatures. Besides, high temperatures performance is also something in which you can trust ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30, of astonishing thermic stability.






Fuel saving

The fluidity allows to the reduction of engine frictions thanks to the optimized oil film thickness. ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30 which does not so to say belong to the "Fuel Economy" lubricants, obtains results close to this range.






... And environement friendly

With low ashes and phosphorus levels, ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30 is also a transitional product between standard technology and low SAPS one !





http://www.elfmoto.us/lub/lubusa.nsf/VS_OPM/C125717D00402081C12571B6004A2246?OpenDocument


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http://www.elfmoto.us/lub/content/NT0007E962.pdf


Viscosity at 40C 68.45
Viscosity at 100C 12.18
Viscosity Index 170
Pour Point -54C

 

[SurgiLube]

Which autoparts store carries it?

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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Which autoparts store carries it?

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I had to mail order it!

 

[TTopJohn]

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the engine seems to rev more freely and MPG is higher

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I've always felt like half of that (not the MPG increase) happens to my cars right after every oil change, no matter what oil is used. I had written it off to placebo effect (you just did something, so you're expecting to feel something different) or an actual but slight reduction in friction from XXXX mile oil to 0 mile fresh oil.

 

[paul_e320]

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Just switched out 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5i from GC 0W-30 to ELF Excellium Full Tech 0W-30.

Even though both oils are ACEA A-3 and are the same viscosity when I look at cSt... the engine seems to rev more freely and MPG is higher with the ELF.

This is only the first impression....but I wasn't expecting this.

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I know a guy on a Mercedes forum who used this oil and he noticed lower wear metals on his last UOA, so he said that he would continue using ELF.

I'm puzzled about ELF's comment of " ... And environement friendly

With low ashes and phosphorus levels, ELF EXCELLIUM FULL-TECH 0W30 is also a transitional product between standard technology and low SAPS one !"

as low SAPS tends to be associated with ACEA C1 oils (meeting Euro IV emissions) with high SAPS on A3/B3/B4 and A5/B5 (Euro I-III), mid-SAPS on C2/C3 (Euro IV).

Am I missing something here?

Regards,
paul...

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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the engine seems to rev more freely and MPG is higher

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I've always felt like half of that (not the MPG increase) happens to my cars right after every oil change, no matter what oil is used. I had written it off to placebo effect (you just did something, so you're expecting to feel something different) or an actual but slight reduction in friction from XXXX mile oil to 0 mile fresh oil.

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Certainly a good theory! Although I didn't notice this from on GC oil change to another.

I also expected no noticeable improvement...so I don't know how placebo effect factors into this situation.

What happened was more along the lines of ' wait a minute, something's different ' and I noticed the engien was revving more freely and then I zeroed out the OBC and noticed that mileage appears to be improved.

These are only first impressions, but at least they are not negative.

 

[JAG]

Elf sells synthetics with Group 3 in them without making it obvious. Do you consider them sleazy?

 

[paul_e320]

I think it's safe to say that all oil companies are sleazy -- we could start rating them according to "degrees of sleaziness"!

But seriously, the average consumer doesn't know and doesn't care and they only follow the 3000 mile OCI signs at the Autozone oil shelves.

Regards,
paul...

 

[TeeDub]

I'll be interested to see how this product holds up, given that the TBN is only 8.8 to start with. The OEM specs listed would indicate API/SM levels for "SAPS" ,ie it meets MB 229.5 & BMW LL-01, but not the low SAPS MB 229.51 or BMW LL-04.

I've sort of given up on the idea of French high technology since my neighbors bought a Peugeot diesel some years back, but perhaps things have improved...

TS

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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Elf sells synthetics with Group 3 in them without making it obvious. Do you consider them sleazy?

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If ELF does what Castro Syntec and allegedly Mobil 1 have doen, then yes...I would consider them sleazy.

Any examples?

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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I'll be interested to see how this product holds up, given that the TBN is only 8.8 to start with. The OEM specs listed would indicate API/SM levels for "SAPS" ,ie it meets MB 229.5 & BMW LL-01, but not the low SAPS MB 229.51 or BMW LL-04.

I've sort of given up on the idea of French high technology since my neighbors bought a Peugeot diesel some years back, but perhaps things have improved...

TS

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ELF says extended drains... but who knows?

Maybe I'll run a UOA at 7K.

 

[Roy Gutfinski]

Better? Probably depends on characteristics of the particular application. One thing I noticed, as I have fairly new bottles of both Elf Excellium Full-Tech 0W-30 and German Castrol Syntec 0W-30. The Elf states it is approved for VW 502 00 and 505 00. The GC states it is approved for VW 502 00 and 505 00 AND 503 01. For what it's worth. I will be using both in non-diesel VW, Saab and Volvo applications.

 

[JAG]

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Elf sells synthetics with Group 3 in them without making it obvious. Do you consider them sleazy?

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If ELF does what Castro Syntec and allegedly Mobil 1 have doen, then yes...I would consider them sleazy.

Any examples?

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Ed, who is or at least was the owner of turbofrogperformance (authorized dealer) told me in an email in Sept 2005 that SXR 5w-30 was mainly Group 3 with a little PAO. I don't think I was given absolutely correct information (out of mistake, not intent) in that email as you'll find out when reading the last link below but oh well...I provide it anyway.

buster has dug up a lot of info on Elf oils too, that are worth searching for if you are interested.

Here is a good thread: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post713081

Another: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post708613

Here, read Primus's post (yes I made mistakes in that thread and he corrected me!

):
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post707606

Elf oils deserve a chance IMO. Not many in the states have tried them.

 

[TeeDub]

TWBG,

Look at the very generous sump sizes - particularly on 6/8 cylinder german engines - and you'll see why the Euro synthetics are long drain products. Put that same oil in a domestic V-8 truck that gets 15-17 mpg, and only holds 5-7 quarts of oil and you won't do nearly as well in terms of OCI's. For example, look at how quickly some of these 5.3L,6.0L and 8.1L, GM "Vortec" engines deplete even high end, high TBN synlubes.

Generally speaking, I do think the top tier, Euro synlubes (including GC and the Mobil 1, 0w-40), are a cut above the mass marketed, Group III stuff you find on the shelves of Wallyworld.

TS

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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TWBG,

Look at the very generous sump sizes - particularly on 6/8 cylinder german engines - and you'll see why the Euro synthetics are long drain products. Put that same oil in a domestic V-8 truck that gets 15-17 mpg, and only holds 5-7 quarts of oil and you won't do nearly as well in terms of OCI's. For example, look at how quickly some of these 5.3L,6.0L and 8.1L, GM "Vortec" engines deplete even high end, high TBN synlubes.

Generally speaking, I do think the top tier, Euro synlubes (including GC and the Mobil 1, 0w-40), are a cut above the mass marketed, Group III stuff you find on the shelves of Wallyworld.

TS

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I should have used your formula to calculate

I thought this ELF oil in a 2005 Outback 2.5i would interest you. Like I said the first impression is that the ELF oil seems to agree with the Subie ...at least from a driveability perspective.

What I think is a bit odd is that the two oils are quite similar when comparing PDS specs.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Elf sells synthetics with Group 3 in them without making it obvious. Do you consider them sleazy?

---

If ELF does what Castro Syntec and allegedly Mobil 1 have doen, then yes...I would consider them sleazy.

Any examples?

---

Ed, who is or at least was the owner of turbofrogperformance (authorized dealer) told me in an email in Sept 2005 that SXR 5w-30 was mainly Group 3 with a little PAO. I don't think I was given absolutely correct information (out of mistake, not intent) in that email as you'll find out when reading the last link below but oh well...I provide it anyway.

buster has dug up a lot of info on Elf oils too, that are worth searching for if you are interested.

Here is a good thread: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post713081

Another: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post708613

Here, read Primus's post (yes I made mistakes in that thread and he corrected me!

):
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post707606

Elf oils deserve a chance IMO. Not many in the states have tried them.

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Thanks for the info...good stuff!