Ex-Marine undergoing gender reassignment

[Laminar Lou]

Okay, so this started in another thread and apparently a few people were interested in the topic. So, to prevent further thread jacking the VW recall thread I started this one.

Basically my friends brother recently decided that he felt he was born of the wrong gender. He was married, a former Marine, and has 2 kids. I knew him as a regular guy and he didn't show any effeminate qualities. I wouldn't say I knew him really well, but he still lived in the house when his brother and I were in High School so I saw him a lot. I always thought of him as the guy you would want on your side if you ever got in a bar fight. He was quite a big guy, but always nice to me. I recently went to a party for my friend and met Stephanie (instead of Steve) and it was kind of a shock.

I don't want to make a spectacle of this person. I think it takes a lot of courage to make the decision to change so dramatically. I have a lot of respect for that. She is finding it very difficult to get a job. So much for equality in the workplace.

I did a quick Google and found that she actually decided to share her story in public so if you are interested here are the pictures with comments:

Stephaine (used to be Steve)

The last picture in the series shows him as I remember him. He is no longer married, but his wife is still supportive of his decision.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Well that's intersting. There is a human side to these stories.
When I was growing up the mother of my girlfriend had a friend who visited often who had recently completed the gender reassignment surgery. I was at the house when my Girlfriends mom had to take a look at the surgery results(in private of course).

I was an enlightened teenager.

 

[Laminar Lou]

I would think, that of all the places that would be accepting of a transgendered person Los Angeles would be the place. Especially in the Graphic Arts field. I had a friend who worked for Disney and, well, creative people are just different - she would fit in just fine.

I don't know if she is a good artist or not, maybe that is the problem. I don't know. The whole thing fascinates me though. I don't know why, maybe it is just because I never would have thought "Steve" would ever become "Stephanie". I'd love to crack a beer and pick her brain. Although it is probably something that she would never be able to articulate. And I probably wouldn't understand, but her story interests me.

Maybe writing a book about her experience would be a way to find work. I am near certain that she isn't really interested in that though. As I knew him as Steve, he was a quiet and reserved guy. I don't think that has changed, I am confident that she didn't do this to get attention. But it might be for the greater good if it fostered more tolerance in the world. She is not the kind of flamboyant, over the top, transexual that you see on TV and the movies. She is a reserved and way more "normal" than most people would expect.

 

[Tempest]

I'm sorry, but I don't feel sorry for this person at all. He/she/it has turned his back on his family, splitting up the marriage because he "feels" he's actually a woman. What are his kids going to do? They no longer have a father, but now have 2 mothers. Apparently they (and his wife of 15 years) were not at the top of his list...he was. I don't think it was brave at all, it was selfish. And I'm sure the many thousands of dollars spent for this could have been much better served in a collage saving fund for the kids. I can just here the teasing that his/her/it kids get.

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I don't want to make a spectacle of this person...She is finding it very difficult to get a job.

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He(?) has already made a spectacle of himself. He is not fooling anybody but himself. Someone like this will only disrupt a workplace. No employer wants that, they have enough problems already. Hiring this type of person is just asking for a law suit.

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"All the pretty and popular girls talked to me," Robinson said. "It was the most perfect night."

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He is looking to be something he is not, and trying to validate himself with the reactions of others.

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I want respect, compassion, understanding and opportunity, just like everyone else.

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Sorry, you are not like everyone else and it is your fault. Live with the decisions you have made and quit complaining about the consequences...be a man. Well, maybe not.

 

[Pablo]

People do what they have to do, I guess.

I will not judge him in any moralistic, spiritual way. I do however find it interesting that a species has members who will cut/hack/snip their genitalia to match their thought patterns. Not exactly a species perpetuating move, but that’s just me.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I do find the psychology and sociology that is part of this very interesting Pablo. When species begin to near the capacity of their environment something begins to change. The social and psychological fabric begins to unravel. We are the only species that can take our expression of this unraveling to this extreme level.
I do not hold judgement against a person for making this decision. Plenty of Straight men, abandon their responsibilities, wives and kids for lesser reasons.
As far as genital mutilation this is not the first time in human history that we have utilized this to reflect or dictate behavior. (think Eunuchs and Women in some Muslim countries and you get the picture)

 

[okiedokie]

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...Not exactly a species perpetuating move...

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Ya think??? That is just incredibly weird and stupid. Acting out such a twisted, warped mental deficiency. That thing belongs nowhere but in a freak show. Only benefit to anyone is the doctor collecting their fees. I wonder how they or their patients can look themselves in the mirror.

 

[Pablo]

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She is finding it very difficult to get a job. So much for equality in the workplace.

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Employers probably have some trouble with his decision making ability, rather than just hiring him on a whim, because he is different.

Good G0D man, I know you are going overboard to be sensitive but you cannot put him in the same category of people who have struggled and been put down merely because of their skin color.

 

[Laminar Lou]

Pablo and Bryan,

First, thanks for your grown-up responses.

My wife and I have the "it's a choice/not a choice" debate every once in awhile. She has a strong religious background so she still believes it is a choice, but since we have mutual friends that are homosexuals I don't think you can make a blanket statement whether it is a choice or not. I know a homosexual that I think was more of a choice, but I know of another that I think was born that way.

In this instance, the urge has to be great to take on a surgery like this. His wife said it wasn't because he wanted to have sex with men. And, interestingly, she didn't think he was in any relationships currently.

I can't imagine that anyone would want the ridicule that is associated with becoming a transsexual on purpose. As Pablo said it; "People do what they have to do."

 

[ekpolk]

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. . . quit complaining about the consequences...be a man.

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Little late for that, now, isn't it???

Trouble finding a job? Wrong employers... A good friend of mine is a Captain with one of the major national/international airlines. They have about a half-dozen "transgender" individuals that he's aware of, employed as pilots! Apparently, they pass their FAA physicals so. . . Reminds me of that classic Bill Murray line in Ghostbusters (as he comments on the rabid EPA guy), "Yes, it's true, this man has no %&^!$."

Ewwwwwwwwwww.

 

[Laminar Lou]

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Good G0D man, I know you are going overboard to be sensitive but you cannot put him in the same category of people who have struggled and been put down merely because of their skin color.

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No, I wasn't trying to make that assertion (although I see it sounded that way). In my mind I was thinking about the mentally handicapped, recovering alcoholics and drug addicts I have hired in the past. I was more alluding to the "protected class" status that they all get lumped into the same category. I wouldn't have a problem hiring her if she was good at what she did, but unfortunately I am in the minority.

I think more people have more compassion to people of color than to transsexuals. If she were a he but black, I bet you he would have a job by now. Wouldn't you think?

 

[9c1]

I went to an all male high school. At one of the reunions (25 years, I think) one of my former classmates showed up as a female. It was a rather well known situation -- he had been a pilot for Eastern, but was dismissed when the gender reassignment was complete. The legal wrangling received quite a bit of attention in the media of the day, and still stands as landmark law.

From:
http://transnh.net/_wsn/page16.html

“1981
Eastern Airlines fires pilot Karen Ulane for transitioning from male to female while on the job. Ulane appeals to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and receives approval to sue the airline based on sex discrimination.”

While the suit was permitted to go forward, and she ultimately prevailed in the courts, the only job then available was flying for small commuter airline, in spite of his Viet Nam combat and civilian airlines experience. He had been married as a male and had a son from that union. A DC3 crash ended the story in 1989.

I knew Ken Ulane in high school, but a lot happened after we graduated. All in all it was a very sad situation.

 

[rpn453]

I just can't understand wanting to mutilate any part of your body, especially such sensitive parts. There's obviously extreme physical self-loathing that I can't relate to; I stick to the mental self-loathing! I also can't understand how a doctor would want to do that to someone else. I guess all parties must really believe that what they're doing is a positive thing.

 

[moribundman]

Walking in another man's shoes appears difficult -- especially in high heels.

 

[Gary Allan]

I had a classmate that switched genders. Rather famous artist in his circle of artists. Found him on the web as Jim ...then he disappeared and Cindy appeared. I thought it was his daughter or something. Went through lots of money with "The Butcher of Bangkok" ...which very much looked like a "strip mall surgeon" (there's literally a surgeon in Bangkok that has a yellow lit sign outside his office). She finally got a domestic surgeon to straighten her out.

You'll recognize his art as "furries" ...I believe that he was a pioneer in the genre after a bout in Japan in the early 70's as he enlisted in the Navy after drawing 3 on the Vietnam lottery that was never called. CONTENT WARNING

I haven't been in contact with her for a long while. Since her site depicting her transition has been taken down ..as well as her official art site, I can't imagine that she's doing that well.

 

[Mr Nice]

This is the way I see it....

You gotta respect his decision to do this, but I worry that his kids might get teased because of their dad.

Stephanie/Steve will eventually want to attend the kid's soccer/baseball games/ parties/ school functions.....etc.

 

[Shannow]

In this town, my partner and I play "well there's something that you don't see everyday", when another member of the Star Wars bar walks up the street, dragging his kids along in a wheeled box.

Looked up the street the other day, and the lady up the road was building a pre-fab steel shed.

Me : "Well there's something you don't see every day."
Her: "What's that ?"
Me : "a lady building a garage."
Her: "well she used to be a licenced builder."
Me : "well there's something you don't see everyday."
Her: "what's that ?"
Me : "a female licenced builder."
Her: "when she was a builder, she was a man".

She's a decent neighbour, and has no family locally. Dunno her story, but beleive that she's got the right to live how she sees fit.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

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"All the pretty and popular girls talked to me," Robinson said. "It was the most perfect night."

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He is looking to be something he is not, and trying to validate himself with the reactions of others.

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You've hit a bullseye with your comment. Part and parcel of Borderline Personality Disorder is either gender confusion and/or sex: lots of it & risky, or none at all. I wonder how many of the BPD criteria these folks have?

I believe that the pain that these folks feel is real, and deep, to long to be that someone 'else'. However, treating gender issues by letting the person change their sex is not dealing with the root of the problem! Early emotional/physical trauma or early childhood pain...THERE is where the root is at.

I would be inclined to think that 90+% of all transgendered operations would never come to fruition if the deep-seeded emotional pain was dealt with at the root-level.

I feel these people have been whispered a lie into their inner being since they've been born. They can be themsevles, who they were made, by diving head first into the pain of the past. In our permissible society, that's not the case anymore. Rather the pathway manipulating one's body to match one's mind has been established, rather than the other way around.

Only through science has gender changing been truly possible. Science, and not dealing with the deep-seeded root-level emotional issues has led to many of these operations occurring.

 

[Pablo]

TNS - BINGO! (now you will to be assigned to a specialist for such deep seated hatred, and possibly be labeled as a homophobe)

And I could care how the guy lives his life - but we have prisoners in WA state petitioning the government to pay for their sex change operations. Hello...hello?.....anyone there? Hello!!!!!??

 

[okiedokie]

I don't see that much of a stretch between doctor's doing this type of mutilation and euthanasia. There ought to a law against it, or a least some laws controlling it so people can be given the opportunity to sort themselves out emotionally/mentally before stupidly ruining theirs and other's lives like this. Can't get a job now, huh? Oh well, didn't quite think it all the way through, I guess.