Help me pick some A/S tires

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B15SE

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Dec 12, 2006
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Princeton, TX
I'm in desperate need to replace the worn out OEM tires that are on my 06 Civic. They are Bridgestone Turaza EL400-02 and the size is 205/55-16.

Here in north Texas, I don't really need winter tires, so a good all season touring or performance tire will work the best for my situation.

I have gone through the Tirerack website, and that only makes me more confused. I'm looking for something with good traction in wet and dry, nice ride, quiet, and some snow/ice traction. We don't get but a few snow/ice events here a year. About once a year we drive up to Kansas to visit the folks around Christmas, so I do need some winter traction incase we get stuck in snow or ice (this is the reason I can't do a summer tire).

I have narrowed it down to the following (but I will take any suggestions and personal experiences). I'm probably going to buy them early next week.

1. Michelin MXV4 Plus - I know they are hated here, but I've had them before and really liked them. They were on a 97 BMW 318i that I had when I was single (that story is for another day-but it had to do with the wife and a minivan
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). They did have a short, ~40K, tread life.

2. Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S - heard good things, but look like they would be noisy?

3. Pirelli P6 Four Seasons - heard they are loud - guy at Discount tire recommended these?

4. Goodyear Eagle RS-A - same Discount guy recommended these as well. These come OEM on some of the new Civics.

5. Yokohama Avid V4s

6. Yokohama YK520 - Discount tire exclusive. Told by Discount that these would be loud?

7. Bridgestone Potenza G009

8. Bridgestone Potenza RE960 Pole Position - Read some good stuff here, plus they are still made in Japan.

9. Kumho Solus KH16 - get good reviews on tirerack, but the cheap price scares me some?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks for the help,
Brian
 
Brian,

I just got the Michelin Hydroedge tires installed on the Saturn yesterday. Have about 20 miles on them so far and they appear to be very quiet, even with pressures set at 36F/32R. Ride is solid and isolated, not harsh at all.

Discount Tire can sell you the exact same tire for your Civic for about $110/tire, give it a look.
 
WHEW.... what a selection. Let's see if we can't break this down a little.

Based on your list....

Performance tires - Both Bridgestones, Goodyear RSA, Michelin Pilot Exalto, Both Yokohamas.

Touring tires - Michelin MXV4, Pirelli P6, Kumho.

It really boils down to what direction you want to lean in, performance or touring/comfort, and what your budget is. Usually I recommend to lean towards performance and be willing to sacrifice a little tread life and cost. But it's your call.

I will say I have the Pilot Exalto's on my Q45 and am very happy with them. A good friend just went from Bridgestone Turanza's to the Pilot Exalto on his Lexus and said while the road noise is a smidge higher, the improve steering and braking response is worth the trade off.

IMHO, the Pilot Exalto and the Bridgestone RE960 are the two best overall tires on your list and would be my two top suggestions.
 
My 06 RSX takes the same size and I went for Kumho ASX. Z-rated and decent in snow. Reminds me of Dunlop SP A2 with more sidewall. Very quiet, $72 shipped at discounttiredirect.com
I will probally go back to Conti Extremes next year, awesome tire incredible in snow.
G-009s are a nice crisp handling tire, a good purchase that can be got locally at Firestone for same as mail-order if you ask nicely.
H/V4S is similar overall and I'm on a Yokohama kick. You probally want speed-rated tire, but Yoko TRZ is AWESOME with 700 wear...will handle the TX heat well.
Dunlop SP5000 is a top-notch tire, period. If the tire shop called and said I won a set of tires, SP5000 is it....but they are expensive.
I have the Mich Pilot HX....they suck #@$%!.
fwiw, I have used all these tire and MANY more.
SP5000
Conti Extemes
V4S
G-009
Potenza RE950
Nothing wrong with Kumho ASX if you want to save a buck. I have them on two cars now.
 
ASX might ride a bit noisy. They aren't marketed as a touring tire.

The Hydroedge tires I currently have (Michelin) are doing very well. It's still early, but I have had a good initial impression.
 
Do Dunlop SP Sport A2 come in your size? That's my first choice.
I also wouldn't hesitate to get any Michelin. They stay balanced all the way down to the cords. Exalto is directional, so you can't rotate them left to right.
Heard bad things about RS-A. Me and dad don't like Pirellis or Conti...
 
I have Canadian 06 Civic Sedan that came with Eagle RS-A and all I can say is DON'T get them. You are wasting your money (DOT 260). Instead, look into what Auto-Union said, this man knows his tires! Combine that with what I have to say:

Non-directional tires are my recommendation for best rotation pattern (better wear, less noise, extended life). Since I drive my 99 Civic like I stole it, it runs on Kumho ECSTA ASX. Very good cheap tire that is comfy, quiet, but has a good bite. May wear faster than you think (DOT 420) but it is only $50 for me (195/55R15) when the rebate is on in the summer.

On my MiL's 99 Civic, I put Dunlop SP Sport A2+, because they have lots of snow up north, but will get very good touring performance out of it in the dry. Lasts longer (DOT 460) than the Kumho ASX in theory, but not as long as the next tire. Will be on rebate during the summer too!

If I were a touring-only kinda guy, I would buy the Yoko TRZ, best bang for the buck and good performance to boot! Too bad it doesn't come in my 15" size. Only good for 06 Civic 16" size. Haven't ever seen them on rebate.

Where we live, my wife's 06 Civic has 16" Dunlop M3 winter tires on steel wheels, and the stock Eagle RS-A on OEM 16" Alloys. When the latter wears off, I'm getting a set of Avon Tech M500 for 3-season duty on the '06. That would be another recommendation had you not mentioned the "S" word in your request. By that I meant "Snow"
smile.gif


Notice all tires I picked are non-directional. I wish there were more to pick from, but directional has been, and will continue to be, the fad in consumer tires
frown.gif
I wish Potenza RE960AS were non-directional. Auto-Union, you should try those next time instead on ContiExtreme.

VR
canada.gif
 
I'd look at the Bridgestones, and Dunlops also. I was working thirds last night and the Dunlops on the rear of the work truck just chewed through the snow with little effort.
shocked.gif
I am considering 225/60/16 Dunlops for my Impala for certain based on that experience.
fruit.gif
driving.gif
 
Just my .02 on the RSA's. I used to drive on these tires for many, many miles a year in high speed applications and all weather conditions. We once "suffered" through 6" of fresh snow one winter. I drove 125 miles on duty that night an never had the first problem, and this was in a rear wheel drive Crown Vic.

Having said this, this particular tire is extremely expensive for the performance. It will do ok in most situations but doesn't really excel in anything.
 
Scratch the RS-As. They're useless in snow. Those Kumho KH-16s look like they'd be even more useless in the snow than the Goodyears.

I'd look at the BFG Traction T/A tires as well.

I've got a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. They're quiet, they have a lot of traction, and they're capable of ridiculous speeds, but a little pricey.
 
Quote:

Non-directional tires are my recommendation for best rotation pattern (better wear, less noise, extended life).
Notice all tires I picked are non-directional. I wish there were more to pick from, but directional has been, and will continue to be, the fad in consumer tires

Click to expand...

VelociRacer: Do you believe directional tires are inherently noisy because of the tread pattern, or because one can't rotate them L to R and so they become noisy because of insufficient rotation?
I seem to remember that directional tires first showed up as extreme wet tires in racing, and one can intuitively visualize the pattern being good at pumping water toward the outsides, like a pump impeller. And who can forget the first GoodYear tire contact patch photos of their directional tire pumping away water? That was very convincing. Perhaps tire makers are preying on people's fear of wet roads to keep this fad alive?
 
Thanks for all the help.
cheers2.gif


I have decided on the Yokohama Avid V4s and a backup incase these aren't available of the Dunlops Sport A2+. I would pick the Dunlops as my first choice, but they weigh about 4lb more than the OEMs. My stock wheels already weigh enough. The OEMs are 21lb, the V4s are 22lb, and the Dunlops are close to 25lb.

The reviews on the Yokos look good: good dry, wet, ride comfort and good wear - decent winter (and that's about all I need) for around $90 each.

I'll let you know how they work out.

Brian
 
Cool. i've been out the last 2 days in crazy ice and snow on the ASXs (2 cars w/them) and the TRZs. I just want to say that the ASX reminds me OF the Dunlop SP A2s with a lil more sidewall. That is smooth, quiet and pretty good in snow. The TRZ has been surprising good in the snow. I have oversize 215/70-15 on the CRV, sweet. (oem is 205/70-15) The extra size is GREAT! fwiw, the ASX on my MiL's Audi 100 FWD are also oversize, 205/65-15. (oem is 205/60-15 or 195/65-15)
 
Brian,

I bought a 96 accord with MXV4s on it and thoght that they were not that bad, but were looking old and finally swapped them out and went to the Pilot Exalto A/S, and absolutely love this tire on this car in all conditions. Wet, dry, snow this tire is great. The tire will feel "squishy" for a hundred or so miles until it breaks in, but ever since then handling feels phenomenal. Noise level is such that I can barely notice tire noise at any speed. I think some of the others you have listed are probably good choices too, just do not have any experience with them. I will never go back to MXV4 now, the only thing about that tire was I tried to wear down to the ribs before replacing and I just could not wear that tires out, still had good tread on them when I replaced and I would estimate that two had about 60K miles on them while the other two had 40k miles and still more than 5/32's of tread left. But that is an estimate since they came on the car and while the PO had reciepts for everything there were no records of tire purchase, with about 90K on the car. So could be more miles. PO was second owner since about 30K.
 
Quote:

VelociRacer: Do you believe directional tires are inherently noisy because of the tread pattern, or because one can't rotate them L to R and so they become noisy because of insufficient rotation?
I seem to remember that directional tires first showed up as extreme wet tires in racing, and one can intuitively visualize the pattern being good at pumping water toward the outsides, like a pump impeller. And who can forget the first GoodYear tire contact patch photos of their directional tire pumping away water? That was very convincing. Perhaps tire makers are preying on people's fear of wet roads to keep this fad alive?

Click to expand...


I truly believe directional treads do not offer much, even up to 70mph. Unless you have some 10+" contact patch. Who wants to drive over 70mph in torrential rain anyway? I won't. Wet race tires are directional because of the insane speeds and width of contact patch.

What happens, however, is that due to continuous rotation in the same direction, they become saw-toothed and sound like a helicopter past half life and below 65mph. It is so annoying that some may think they have a bad hub bearing!

Some tires may resist saw-toothing better than others. Better ones have sipes dividing big tread blocks into smaller sections to interrupt the saw-tooth pattern from leading edge (wears faster = shorter) to trailing edge (taller) of a tread block. But bigger tread blocks handle better in the dry.
 
Quote:

I truly believe directional treads do not offer much, even up to 70mph. Unless you have some 10+" contact patch. Who wants to drive over 70mph in torrential rain anyway? I won't. Wet race tires are directional because of the insane speeds and width of contact patch.

What happens, however, is that due to continuous rotation in the same direction, they become saw-toothed and sound like a helicopter past half life and below 65mph. It is so annoying that some may think they have a bad hub bearing!

Some tires may resist saw-toothing better than others. Better ones have sipes dividing big tread blocks into smaller sections to interrupt the saw-tooth pattern from leading edge (wears faster = shorter) to trailing edge (taller) of a tread block. But bigger tread blocks handle better in the dry.

Click to expand...

I starting to notice this effect on my RE960AS tires. It's really only at the inner/outer tread blocks and the sipes do break up the pattern. This may have more to do with turning since it's pretty much only noticeable on the shoulders. The last alignment check was really off on total toe but theoretically within specs. That might also be a factor. I have a lifetime alignment, but it take some persuading to get them to center the total toe even though because it's "within spec".

I remember noticing a similar effect on my (non-directional) Pirelli P6000 tires on my '95 Integra GS-R. The recommended rotation pattern was front straight to back and crossed-over back to front. However - that radical looking "wave" tread pattern wasn't all that effective at channeling standing water and I could feel a tire hydroplaning at 50 MPH over a puddle with most of the tread left.
 
@y_p_w
I feel your pain with saw-toothing. I was going to bring up the 960AS as a good example of how they sipe the tread blocks to reduce the scale of saw-toothing.

Also, not all non-directional tires are created equal. My 175 wide Dunlop DS-1 winter tires were downright suicidal past half life and over 70mph in heavy rain. I felt I was going straight when I was turning at 70mph with NO puddles, just standing water in heavy rain. Those 4 grooves were deceiving. 2 of them were not straight, designed that way for snow grip.

On the other hand, my 195-wide Avon Tech M500, although not A/S, will not skip a beat with 4 deep circumferential grooves.

Similarly, I haven't felt a bit of worry driving the Kumho ASX, with 2 really deep circumferential grooves.

Looks like the P6000 has only 1 deep groove? Yikes!

My Kumho ASX tires, which are non-directional, have to be rotated every 3k miles to keep saw-toothing in check. I do the "Forward-X" pattern that you described. It is designed for FWD. But I waited 6k miles for my first rotation and I could see and hear saw toothing on the back tires.

Saw-toothing may start in the front, but rear tires is REALLY where saw-toothing becomes noticeable. It takes 2 Forward-X rotations to change the rotating direction of one pair of tires. So if you do your rotations every 3k miles, it will be 6k before the rears go Forward-X and reverse direction. My first rotation was 6k, second was 3k, so the rear tires saw 9k before reversing which I think is OK for most non-directional tires, except Ultra High Performance ones like Kumho ASX.

My observation is that saw toothing is accelerated in the back of a FWD vehicle because of constant negative camber plus toe-in.
 
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