1997 Toyota Camry Auto Transmission 141K

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Location
Bangor, Maine
Auto transmission fluid analysis by Blackstone
3 quart pan drain at 35000, full drain and refill at 141908
Universal avg based on 13000 miles
Code:



Eng mi 141908 Univ

Oil Mi 141908 Avg

Al 92 16

Cr 1 0

Fe 120 34

Cu 256 72

Pb 55 14

Sn 13 2

Mo 0 1

Ni 22 0

Mn 2 1

Ag 0 0

Ti 0 0

K 0 0

B 31 51

Si 29 20

Na 3 3

Ca 46 126

Mg 75 28

P 253 274

Zn 166 85

Ba 6 3

Visc 41.7 43-51

Flash 405 >355

H20 0
Insol Tr
TAN 1.6



 
Not sure what TAN should be, considering the miles on this ATF the numbers aren't bad compared to universal averages times ten. Any comments would be appreciated.
 
More frequent ATF drain/refills are needed.

The Fe+Al+Cu+Pb add up to a scary number.

The visc is also very low.

TAN is something that can be argued. I know at least one company preferring 1.5 or less, while another recommends a full flush at 2.5. So, don't use TAN as an excuse NOT to change the ATF when wear particles, visc, and time in usage is already excessive. Lubegard red can also be used to reduce TAN from climbing any higher.

What trans/engine?

You should consider a full flush to bring the viscosity up, remove all suspended wear......
Its time to drop the pan for magnet cleaning and filter replacement.

What ATF did you use at 33k and 142k?
 
Engine is V6 and the car is a 1997 Toyota Camry XLE, The transmission has D,2,L and Overdrive (4 speed automatic?) and there is only one V6 offered in the Camry that year, (I don't think there is more thsn one auto transmission option as well.) A full flush was performed just after I took my sample the full transmission service at the Toyota dealer (I have read elsewhere that the dealer flush machines do a better job than the independent shops.) The car does not see any towing, stop and go, or dusty conditions or short trip driving, especially for the first 7 years and 131K. In 2004 I got a Prius and since then the car has only been driven about 6-7K per year. The service interval for severe service is 30K, but for normal service it doesn't have any interval, just check the fluid level so after a pan drain at 35K (about 3 quarts) the next service was at 142K. The transmission seems to be working fine, but after doing some reading here it seemed an ATF service was overdue. If you compare my numbers for 142K for 4 qts ATF and 108K for the other 3 (I believe capacity is 7 quarts) to universal averages at 13K, the numbers don't look all that bad on a per mile basis. The fluid was Dexron III at 35K, the rest was factory fill which could be Dex II or Dex III. Sample was taken through the dipstick using the Blackstone Pump.

Dennis
 
Here I divided wear metals by 13 for universal averages and 106.9 for "My Tran". I used 106.9K= 141.9K-35K because all of the ATF had at least 106,900 miles on it. On a PPM/1000 miles basis it doesn't look that bad, though I wouldn't recommend this long an interval to someone I liked, 60K probably would have been fine. The ATF has now been changed out and I may sample again in 10K.

Code:



106.9K on ATF in My Tran, Unv Av= 13K

My Tran Unv Av

ppm/1K ppm/1K

Al 0.86 1.23

Cr 0.01 0.00

Fe 1.12 2.62

Cu 2.39 5.54

Pb 0.51 1.08

Sn 0.12 0.15

Mo 0.00 0.08

Ni 0.21 0.00

Mn 0.02 0.08

Ag 0.00 0.00

Ti 0.00 0.00



 
I don't believe in 'universal' wear comparisons.

What I see is 500PPM of wear which is excessive, mileage meaning nothing to me and even PPM/M isn't anything to draw a conclusion on. Maybe your driving style isn't aggressive?
Regardless, those wear particles will beat the #@$%! out of seals and all lubrication points.

Dealer flush machines are similar to the ones used everywhere else. They are nothing special. My only issue is that some dealers do a drain/refill or 2, and call it a flush. Plus, many dealers use 'no-name" bulk ATF and not OEM ATF.

I am glad that a 'full flush' was performed. But, at that mileage, a pan drop, for filter replacement should be considered, along with magnet cleaning or replacement.

A yearly drain/refill with a name brand Dexron III-h would be a good maintenance habit to start. And, with your location, a synthetic or blend would be excellent upgrades.

Also, make sure that the front differential, with its own quart sump, is serviced. It should have its own drain and refill plugs. It also takes Dexron or equivalent ATF.
 
Undummy,

Thanks for the advice, I will use synthetic next pan drain and maybe have the the pan cleaned out as well, I thought that would be part of the full flush, but I'll have to check with the dealer. I plan to service every 15K which will probably be every other year, but I may do a UOA in 10K to see how things look.

Dennis
 
Those transmissions are virtually bulletproof. Unlike some, as long as you make SOME effort to periodically drain and refill the fluid, they will last virtually forever.

I had a 4-cyl, 98 Camry 2.2 in the shop several weeks ago with 140k on the original fluid. It got a pan pull with Castrol Dexron III(H)/Mercon and a new filter kit. Shifted fine before and after. Go figure.

The name-brand conventional Dexron III(H) fluids are all relatively similar so I wouldn't say that one brand is necessarily "better." The only time that differences exists (possibly) is if you were comparing a conventional to a blend to a synthetic...
 
I agree. The Camry A/W transmission is almost bulletproof. When I did a complete fluid transfer on my '96 V-6, I used Mibil 1 ATF. It shifted great afterwards...but it also shifted great before the new synthetic fluid. I further agree that all you have to do with these transmissions is 'some' maintenance, 'every once in awhile.'
 
So far my experience is similar. In the future, I will do a little maintenance, rather than pretend that normal service simply requires checking the level. Every 30K minimum for me.
 
While Toyota & several others claim their A/T's do not require ATF changes under NORMAL operating conditions, I am unaware of any fluid producers who will make that same claim.
 
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