Numbers for 92 Toyota Landcruiser Cruiser 4.2 TD

[Flywest]

These are my numbers for UOA on the above vehicle, which has 236,000 km's (147500 miles) on it!

Sample ID
FE 5
CR 0
PB 2
CU 3
SN 1
AL 2
NI 0
AG N/A
MN 0
SI 0
B 0
NA 8
MG 0
CA 0
BA 0
P 0
ZN 0
MO 3
TI 0
V 0
K 0

Visc40 = 0
Visc100 = 14.4
Water = 0
Soot = 0
Solids N/a
Fuel = 0
Glycol 0
Nitr = 0
Oxide = 0
Tan = N/a
TBN = 10
Oil was Pennzoil diesel, km's since last change ~3000
How do these figures sound?
I'm Thinking of going to a synthetic oil and some bypass Frantz type filtration as well!
Any pro's or cons?

Cheers!

 

[Tim]

Kinda difficult to tell too much from an 1800 mile sample.

Zero silicon??? That is kinda rare....even for a short interval like that.

I wish we could get diesel Cruisers here without having to jump through a bunch of hoops.

 

[Flywest]

Tim,

Thanks for looking at the figures, you know for a diesel with over 147500 miles - this thing always has clean oil just like it came outta the bottle at oil change time - zero soot!
I don't even have bypass filtration on it yet!
Magnificent engine!
Also has a new air filter - and breathes clean air thru a snorkel at roof height - zero silicon doesn't surprise me!

The 5 speed manual overdrive turbo diesel cruiser is a magnificent vehicle IMHO! It would be well worth whatever hoops you had to jump thru to get one!
I understood that theres a new 2007 model that you guys will be getting late this year, that was spotted being tested in the UAE! Apparently it's a V8 Turbo diesel with great numbers..

You could read about it and see the pics here on a thread at my forums.

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Fly_West/index.php?showtopic=294

From memory it's 4.4 litres of twin intercooled turbo diesel, putting out something like 200Kw & 600 Nm of torque!
You know stock standard my intercooled turbo 7.3 PDS F 250 only puts out 154KW & 534NM according the turbo chart.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/EffieGasTurbo.jpg
You gotta wonder how the Toyota engineers wring that sorta HP out of 2/3rds the cubic capacity of the 7.3PSD!.

I know you guys get this model a full year ahead of us, late this year...we won't see it until 2008.

If I were you - I'd be printing the photos from the thread and the specifications - and seeing your local Toyota dealer for a first come / first served deal!
They will eat anything else out there being about a full tonne less in GVM than the F trucks and producing more HP!.

There comfort and reliability are second to none!
I don't have anything bad to say about the Toyota except that my son don't baby it like I always have, and I miss driving it - much as I enjoy the Effie, I still miss the cruiser. I don't know too many who have owned a diesel cruiser who haven't liked them a lot!

They have a bit of a serious offroad cult following down under!

Cheers!

 

[Steve S]

Why do you want syn oil?

 

[Flywest]

Why synthetic?
Well I was reading about the benefits of uniformity of the synthetic base oil and resistance to film shearing, + ability to tolerate extreme temps etc, seemed suited to the towing task I intend in extremely hot temps here, also I read that the PSD's are notorious for film shearing in hot temps apparently!
Down here PSD trucks are extremely, extremely expensive. I have already ploughed over $100 grand into this truck in purchase price and mods so far. I want everything on it to be "the best protected" that it can be, seeing as it is such an expensive purchase / investement or 'business asset' here!!

Reliability is very important for me & my business customers and the remote area's I operate in demand it.

Just trying to do it right is all, but I had no idea that synthetic oil was 'that expensive' compared to dino juice!

Even if I tripled or quadrupled my oil change intervals I'd still be behind...on cost alone.

I'll have to see if other brands of synthetic are as expensive! Maybe theres a home brewed brand thats cheaper, I have a suspicion freight to downunder maybe makes redline so expensive!

Cheers!

 

[Flywest]

Sorry that was a confusing reply, it requires more details to make any sense!
I run 3 turbo diesel vehicles in my family:-
The F250 truck With 7.3 Turbo PSD
The Toyota Cruiser 4.2 TD
& Little Mitusbishi dual cab pickup 2.5 TD 4x4

I do the oil changes on all of them myself, and wanted to standardise oil across all 3 and buy it in bulk.

We have a couple boats and when we go north for the charter season - the Ftruck tows the biggest, my No. 1 son in the Toyota cruiser follows along behind with the 20 foot cat in tow and the little ute tags along behind again with number 2 son, laden with fuel drums for the boats & dive bottles etc usually!

I was looking to buy bulk oil in a 55 gallon drum to suit all 3 vehicles, and keep them in good shape!

I just figured if synthetic was best I'd swap to that for all of them and keep it simple with things like UOA samples etc at least all 3 would be the same base oil and the best we could get.

The cost of synthetic has just scared me witless is all!

For what it's worth - these were the latest F250 UOA results.

FE 0
CR 0
PB 0
CU 2
SN 0
AL 1
NI 0
AG N/A
MN 0
SI 0
B 0
NA 0
MG 0
CA 0
BA 0 P 0
ZN 0
MO 1
TI 0
V 0
K 0

VISC40 = 0
VISC100 = 14.4
WATER = 0
SOOT = 0
SOLIDS = N/A
FUEL = 0
GLYCOL = 0
NITR = 0
OXID = 0
TAN = N/A
TBN = 10.6

Comment given: ALL ENGINE WEAR RATES NORMAL.
SAMPLE APPEARS FREE OF EXTERNAL CONTAMINATION.
ANALYSIS INDICATES PROPER PERFORMANCE OF THE LUBRICANT AND UNIT.

I wish I could say the same for the transmission fluid UOA results!

Cheers!

 

[Steve S]

Unless Your engine needs or requires syn oil there isn't any real reason or advantage to use it. Most all in the trucking industry use Regular old fashion petroleum oil and the engines last and last.If the syns were of real advantage syn oil would be way more popular in the commercial trucking industry.Note syn differential and trans oils do show an advantage in those applications. I am not knocking syn oils .

 

[Flywest]

Can you advise me maybe about using synthetic in the auto trans of the F250?
You see when I bought it - the truck had 100,000kms (60,000 miles).

I dropped the pan and replaced the filter and put a deep pan on along with aux cooler!

I sent the trans fluid off for UOA, and these were my results!

Quote:

---

TORQUE CONVERTER WEAR INDICATED.
CLUTCH DISC/THRUST WASHER WEAR INDICATED.
SUSPECT CLUTCH/DISC PACK DAMAGE.
SUSPECT GEAR WEAR.
BEARING/GEAR WEAR INDICATED.
DIRT PRESENT.
CHECK ALL DIRT ACCESS POINTS.
RESAMPLE AT 1/2 NORMAL INTERVAL TO FURTHER MONITOR.
FLUSH UNIT THOROUGHLY.

---

The pan magnet looked like this!
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/Image289.jpg

These were the UOA numbers

Sample ID 9922101-R-5152
Date Taken 2007/01/03
Date Rec 2007/01/03
Date Rpt 2007/01/17
Date Posted 2007/01/17 2007/01/18
Oil Miles 1500km's
Comp Miles 105000 km's
Fluid Brand/Type MERCON - ATF
Condition ABNORMAL

Sample ID 9922101-R-5152
VISC40 0
VISC100 16.1
WATER 0.1
SOOT 0
SOLIDS N/A
FUEL 0
GLYCOL 0
NITR 0
OXID 0
TAN N/A
TBN 0

Sample ID 9922101-R-5152
FE 109
CR 0
PB 31
CU 84
SN 12
AL 6
NI 0
AG N/A
MN 0
SI 5
B 0
NA 4
MG 0
CA 0
BA 0
P 0
ZN 0
MO 2
TI 0
V 0
K 1

Is this transmission about to "self detonate" on me as soon as I couple up the boat?

It was 'suggested' to me that synthetic fluid might make the already worn/damaged clutchpack 'slip' more easily?

I put 1500 KM's on the sample, for distance travelled because thats what I thought it had done since I bought it only 1500KM's before and was told the "stealership" had done all the oils filters fluids etc etc.

When I looked at the dirt in the oil and filter - it didn't look like it had even been changed in the 60,000 miles the truck had done from new!

The service book shows it's had ever service since new at another dealership so I don't know how far that fluid has been in the trans - whether they changed it once at 30,000 miles or not?

It could be:- 30,000 miles old if it was changed or 60,000 if it wanst ever changed since new or only 1500 if the stealership I bought it from didn't lie about doing the fluids (they never filled in the service book!).

Pretty hard to know!

Cheers!

 

[jonny-b]

I would use synthetic in your tranny and differentials as well. It will keep temperatures low and the equipment will last longer. For your engine, it seems that dino is performing quite well. One thing you should considder for your tranny, is the Motorsilk Atf-fluid. It worked well for me, fixing problems with both the gearbox and the power steering. Just Google Motorsilk, and you can get some more info.

 

[deepsquat]

Who is testing this oil??? The readings I posted below don't make any sense. Zero in all the fields for the detergancy level of the oil ...I am not buying it


MG 0
CA 0
BA 0
P 0
ZN 0
MO 3
TI 0
V 0
K 0

 

[LargeCarManX2]

What type of synthetic oils are avaliable in Australia?

What type of mineral oils are avaliable in Australia?

 

[Flywest]

Hi JohnnyB,
The UOA Transmission fluid results was by Oilguard in the USA! Heres a link to a captured screenshot of the report on my account there!
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/OilguardScreenshot.jpg
Those are the numbers they gave me?
I have saved the used trans fluid - I could send it off to another analysis laboratory...and see what results I get!
It would have settled in the clean container I put it into - so do I stir it up to get a uniform sample?
All the debris outta the pan filter is now in it as I emptied that into the same container - metal shavings etc that would have been in there from break in!
You have to admit the high iron, copper, lead and tin readings suggest somethings seriously wrong with the trans?
Does Mercon Trans fluid normally have high detergent readings? It's not like it needs to keep a lot of soot in suspension like engine oil would have too?
Just curious why you think the detergent readings are wrong for trans fluid?
Anyone else have any mercon trans fluid UOA's results to compare it too?
All I know is it looked red brown when I emptied it into the container, and a lotta junk seemed to come outta the pan filter when I upended it, during the flush and deep pan install - of couse the trans sample was taken before that work by just opening the drain plug but it wasn't a mid stream sample - it was the first bit that came out after the plug! Maybe I just sampled wrong?
Still curious about the detergent comments tho!
In two weeks we leave for a months holiday towing the boat 900 miles one way and I have about zero faith in this transmission based on the UOA results and the F trucks dubious record for transmission failures by 60,000 miles!!
Should I be considering the suggested additives to the trans fluid or synthetic trans fluid?
Will my Ford extended 3 year warranty I bought with the truck a couple months ago be of any use if I'm half way to the destination broken down on the side of the road?
Is keeping the trans cool (monitoring trans temps and with the extra oil cooler & deep pan, and water spray on the cooler if necessary) be any guarantee the trans won't die half way there regardless?
Cheers!

 

[Flywest]

The major oil companys here who all have their own proprietry brand oils & fuels:
BP
Shell
Ampol
Mobil(Exon)
Caltex
Gull

We get lubricating oils also from Pennzoil, Castrol and others who I guess buy and blend their own lubricating oils from base stock from the major refiners.

There is only one "refiner" in this state at Kwinana (BP) who supply the 6 major companys above their refined fuel products!

Cheers!

 

[LargeCarManX2]

I would then try the Mobil Delvac synthetic diesel oil, as well as the Mobil synthetic ATF. I would think 10K would be a good point to do a UOA on the engine oil, and 30K for the transmission.

 

[Gene K]

F250 7.3L PSD

FE 0
Nitr 0
Oxid 0
Soot 0

All of these are suspect in addition to detergency levels

 

[Shannow]

Flywest,
I read your first post and thought snorkel regarding the silicon.

If my next UOA on my Navara comes back with silicon, I might fir a snorkel...besides, like the look.

That tranny post is scarily suspect. viscosity is 50w at 100C, and non existent at 40. Lab results look screwy.

 

[Flywest]

OK here is what I've decided!
http://www.pennzoil.com/products/LongLife/fleets_longhaul.html
You can see there is a link to a pdf with data sheet for this 15 W 40 Dino Juice, although data about their addpack is severly lacking!

The results therefore about detergents etc I guess is hardly surprising - maybe there arent any?

Who knows - however it's cheap, available & seems to work OK going on the UOA's for the Landcruiser thats been running on it!

According to the literature it's recommended for the International Navistar T444E engine in the F truck, so thats what I'm going for!

I'm not convinced about these new light synthetic base oil "singer sewing machine oil full of polymers" for use in our hot temps - you guys in your ice caves can try them - but I maintain that here they are superflous and probably detrimental until they come out with a decent base oil number to start with!

Give me a 15 W 50 or 15 W 70 synthetic oil at an affordable price and I'd think about giving it a go, but I'm just not convinced with this thin stuff!

I'll stick with what I've been using, until these oil companys get their heads outta their butts and come out with decent info!

All the synthetic info avasilable from their websites just reads like an advert and is devoid of usefull factual information about their oils and add packs to allow one to make an informed decision!

What are the effects of 1 micron bypass filtration on synthetic base oil polymer add packs? Does it remove the polymers and will I be running my truck on 'singer sewing machine oil' in 40C+ heat towing a load, after the first 20 minsutes when the oils all be bypass filtered once?

Sorry, but after a couple weeks researching this - I remain totally sceptical of the snake oil salesmen!

I will be sending my UOA back to Oilguard for a secomd look - this oil change now that it's done a few more miles! (BUT...I'll be sending duplicate samples to my local CAT dealer analysis lab as well for cross checking purposes!).

Anyone wants to look at the PDF file on that link might be able to make better sense of my UOA's posted above!

Cheers!

 

[Shannow]

Penz Long-Life has always been a respected oil on this board.

I've used it myself in my 4Runner (petrol)

 

[JohnBrowning]

How come you have no additive package in this oil??? It is devoid of calcium,magniesium,zink,boron,moly etc.... Then their is that zero silicone number as well. Something is not right at all with this UOA!

 

[Flywest]

John,

I agree that the Oilguard analysis results are suspect. Why, I have no idea - except maybe they don't analyse for the addpack, instead only reporting on factors they consider significant like wear metals etc?.

The "interesting" part to all this I guess, is that - I'm back from the towing holiday of 5 weeks duration and had absolutely zero problems with the trans or engine!

I was towing in 46 degree C heat (114.8F) and the water tanks with pump & sprayer that I fitted out front of the radiators & oil coolers etc really worked a treat!

The trans temps never got above 70 C (158 f) - and when they approached that I would switch on the sprayer pump and down would come the egt's and trans temps straight away - not only that the air con was also noticeably cooler as a side benefit!

I am really pleased with the water tanks / sprayer setup which I'll photo soon for anyone interested! I'd not be scared to tow anything in any temps with that backup..

It was only ever used on looong slow grades where she would want to kick down a couple gears and run at 2500 + rpm's to get up a hill and egt's and trans temps would climb.

Egt's never went above 550C - 600C Max (1022 - 1112 f) at any stage! Trans never went above 75C (165f)

Most often while towing at 60 mph and about 1800 rpm's my egt's were from 450 - 550 C (842 - 1022 f).

I averaged about 10 - 11.5 mpg depending on winds which were up to 50 knots at times!

Basically the F truck is a great tow truck - but ****me it has a few design sortfalls that became evident during the holiday!

Number 1 is tyhe crazy stoopid air con!

Who in their right mind designs a air con that cannot direct ANY cool air down into the footwell? In 46C weather (114.8F) I gotta tell you that bloody floor gets REAL hot, not to mention the exhaust passing right under it (550C EGT's remember!)....

With only a rubber mat as insulation, it wasn't long before it was so hot I couldn't keep my feet down there - even on the accelerator!

OK - you guys who drive in the snow might like that idea but us desert dwellers find it gets old real fast!

Maybe someone tested thos truck in deat6h valley or whatever - but i'm telling you he never spend any time in the cab on a hot road on a hot day! If he had - the air copn would be able to direct cool air to your feet as well as your face!

I took oil samples before we left when I changed oil, and I'll take more, now that I'm back!

We will see just how well she coped with all the hard work!

That is of course - if Oilguard want to do a decent analysis! I think I'll go get some CAT oil sample containers and double check my results with them, just to be on the safe side!

Cheers!