I am on the market for a used car. Does anybody have any experience of volvo s60. The low-pressure turbo I5 seem produce enough power. How is the reliability? Is it easy for service?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Any thoughts on volvo S60 2.5T?
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Good car depending on the year. Early ones had some expensive electronic problems. That wasn't a problem while they were still under warranty. Head over to the
http://brickboard.com/ And ask questions to the owners of the S60's who hang out there. One of the best sites on the net for Volvo.
http://brickboard.com/ And ask questions to the owners of the S60's who hang out there. One of the best sites on the net for Volvo.
The 2000-2001s (2?) had some throttle body and transmission software issues. Both are easily fixed and there is a recall right now for the throttle body software upgrade. You might get 2002 or better to play it safe. We love ours, have 20k trouble-free miles on it. The 2.5T has plenty of power for us, very fun to drive. Handling and brakes are very good. Volvo builds the body very solid and the paint is very good. Our car still looks new. Also, we average around 25-26 mpg in mixed city/highway driving. Better than our Honda Accord V6 which got around 21 with the same treatment (what a disappointment that one was).
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What year? It's critical to have up-to-date service records on these. You will pay dearly later if corners were cut. Lube history is more important with a turbo, even the low pressure ones. Avoid off-lease vehicles if there is the slightest doubt.
The S60 is a nice car, certainly better than what CU says. Volvo makes the very best seats in the industry and this is a great long distance runner. It is a comfortable and relaxing ride, but doesn't offer all the gizmos of the Japanese luxury models. The I5 has a unique gurgle and is not for everyone. It is a true European vehicle, assembled on the Continent, stuffed full of German and Swedish components, with all that implies. It is not a vehicle for the general mechanic, nor will it respond well to discount auto parts. Scheduled maintenance with quality parts and fluids is essential. Budget accordingly and find a competent independent Volvo shop. Reliability and parts/service expense are better than a premium German make, but much worse than a Japanese vehicle.
The S60 is the last all-Volvo-designed Volvo, and is now an old but mostly debugged platform. The jury is still out on whether the P2s will match the longevity of the old Volvos, but there is no glaring evidence to the contrary so far.
The 2.5T is somewhat pedestrian, but solid, comfortable and safe, with decent acceleration. If you want real excitement in this platform, look to a T5, or better still, an R. The R can run with the top sports sedans out there (and quite a few sports cars, too) and responds very well to mods. I drive an S60R. Used R's are relative bargains on the lot, but are very complex and exceedingly expensive to repair outside of warranty.
The S60 is a nice car, certainly better than what CU says. Volvo makes the very best seats in the industry and this is a great long distance runner. It is a comfortable and relaxing ride, but doesn't offer all the gizmos of the Japanese luxury models. The I5 has a unique gurgle and is not for everyone. It is a true European vehicle, assembled on the Continent, stuffed full of German and Swedish components, with all that implies. It is not a vehicle for the general mechanic, nor will it respond well to discount auto parts. Scheduled maintenance with quality parts and fluids is essential. Budget accordingly and find a competent independent Volvo shop. Reliability and parts/service expense are better than a premium German make, but much worse than a Japanese vehicle.
The S60 is the last all-Volvo-designed Volvo, and is now an old but mostly debugged platform. The jury is still out on whether the P2s will match the longevity of the old Volvos, but there is no glaring evidence to the contrary so far.
The 2.5T is somewhat pedestrian, but solid, comfortable and safe, with decent acceleration. If you want real excitement in this platform, look to a T5, or better still, an R. The R can run with the top sports sedans out there (and quite a few sports cars, too) and responds very well to mods. I drive an S60R. Used R's are relative bargains on the lot, but are very complex and exceedingly expensive to repair outside of warranty.
That's the Volvo to get. The newer the better. Volvo has been giving $8000 off MSRP for new ones, so used cars should be discounted appropriately. The cars are well built, but the electronics are buggy. Buy one made after 2002 and you should be good to go. Very comfortable cars to drive.
Thanks for the input, gentlemen. From what volvohead said, the car is very difficult for a DIYer to service, correct? I don't mean major repair that need to tear down engine or transmission. Just like tune-up, maybe replace the turbo which may fail after 100k miles even carefully maitained. Any DIYer owner of S60 would like to chime in?
It's not the space shuttle. But you have to know what you're doing, or you can make an expensive mess in a hurry. Their service complexity is in the same league as Audi and BMW. These are not cheap cars to keep, but you get what you pay for.
If you want to figure out what it takes to service a later Volvo, buy a Vadis DVD on Ebay for $10 or $15.
I doubt that a Volvo turbo, properly maintained, would fail at 100k.
If you want to figure out what it takes to service a later Volvo, buy a Vadis DVD on Ebay for $10 or $15.
I doubt that a Volvo turbo, properly maintained, would fail at 100k.
I haven't been a Volvo owner for long, but I don't think I would say difficult to DIY, just different. The I-5 has been around a long time, so most of the quirks and tricks are known. These engines can get 300k+ miles on them easily. The turbos are water-cooled. The various forums, such as Volvospeed have a lot of DIY articles. What's different with the post 2000 models is the 5-speed auto. transmission, which had some software issues at first, but those have gone away. The transmission still has a dipstick, which most of the other automakers have dispensed with, so at least it is still somewhat serviceable.
Volvohead is right that Volvo requires 7500 mile oil changes on conventional oil, even in the turbos. So you will want to be careful in selecting a car with good maintenance history. Personally, I split the interval with an intermediate oil change during the warranty period and use synthetic oil.
By the way, the Vadis DVD is not as good as it sounds. It is quite basic and poorly implemented. Think about what IKEA does for furniture and you can imagine what Vadis does for a service manual.
Volvohead is right that Volvo requires 7500 mile oil changes on conventional oil, even in the turbos. So you will want to be careful in selecting a car with good maintenance history. Personally, I split the interval with an intermediate oil change during the warranty period and use synthetic oil.
By the way, the Vadis DVD is not as good as it sounds. It is quite basic and poorly implemented. Think about what IKEA does for furniture and you can imagine what Vadis does for a service manual.
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100K on a Turbo, your kidding right?
My 87 got 3K mile dino oil changes at the dealer (Bulk oil)
and my original turbo lasted 247K miles before it seized.
Had I been using a good synthetic with an Auto-Rx cleaning every 100K I would probably still have the original Turbo as well as the engine. BTW she still running strong at 346K (64K on new motor) miles on her way to 500K miles.
Thanks for the input. I don't mean to spread wrong information. I personally have no experience on turbo now. That's why keep learning around. I onced talked to a vw mechanics who said any turbo above 120k is on borrowed time.
Anybody would like to talk a little bit more on turbo? Like what's the difference between European makers?
Anybody would like to talk a little bit more on turbo? Like what's the difference between European makers?
Wife drives a 2003 Volvo XC 90, with the 2.5 turbo engine. No problems at all, other than basic maintenance:
Oil: Uses Castrol GC 0w-30, changed every 5,000 miles
Just changed spark plugs out at 60,000 miles.
Volvo didn't specify a transmission fluid change until over 100,000 miles unless you are towing, in which case it should be changed around 50,000 miles. All we tow is furniture and dogs in the back, but I had them change this fancy fluid out at 60,000 miles. No apparent difference in shifting as a result.
Brake pads seem to last a long time, but maybe that is just her driving style.
Anyway, no problems with this one. People like to lament these "new volvos", but it has basically been a problem free vehicle. Just basic maintenance, as on any car.
I have a neighbor down the street with a S60. Don't know the exact year, but is about the same as in question, I'd guess. I personally like the design of it. She says she hasn't had any significant problems, either.
All in all, I'm pretty impressed with these Volvos. Some people say this motor isn't enough, you need a V8. Hey, she's not racing for pink slips in a Volvo. This white block seems just fine to me.
Oil: Uses Castrol GC 0w-30, changed every 5,000 miles
Just changed spark plugs out at 60,000 miles.
Volvo didn't specify a transmission fluid change until over 100,000 miles unless you are towing, in which case it should be changed around 50,000 miles. All we tow is furniture and dogs in the back, but I had them change this fancy fluid out at 60,000 miles. No apparent difference in shifting as a result.
Brake pads seem to last a long time, but maybe that is just her driving style.
Anyway, no problems with this one. People like to lament these "new volvos", but it has basically been a problem free vehicle. Just basic maintenance, as on any car.
I have a neighbor down the street with a S60. Don't know the exact year, but is about the same as in question, I'd guess. I personally like the design of it. She says she hasn't had any significant problems, either.
All in all, I'm pretty impressed with these Volvos. Some people say this motor isn't enough, you need a V8. Hey, she's not racing for pink slips in a Volvo. This white block seems just fine to me.
The trend to longer fluid change intervals and "lifetime" fluids is something Volvo has only recently embraced to "keep up with the Joneses", and is contrary to their traditional philosophy. So while Volvo may no longer recommend it, it is probably good practice if you intend to keep the car for many years to change the ATX fluid much more regularly than every 100k.
The fluid used in the later P2s is a 3309-compatible type, and bulk 3309 can be used (and many dealers do use it) as a substitute for the very expensive Volvo bottled synthetic.
Volvo's dominant marketing niche is safety, however, and they will do nothing to tempt sullying that image. I believe Volvo still advocates a two-year brake fluid interval, which leaves most general mechanics drop-jawed.
Regular and comprehensive fluid changes is probably the best thing one can do to go far in Volvo's "high mileage" club.
The fluid used in the later P2s is a 3309-compatible type, and bulk 3309 can be used (and many dealers do use it) as a substitute for the very expensive Volvo bottled synthetic.
Volvo's dominant marketing niche is safety, however, and they will do nothing to tempt sullying that image. I believe Volvo still advocates a two-year brake fluid interval, which leaves most general mechanics drop-jawed.
Regular and comprehensive fluid changes is probably the best thing one can do to go far in Volvo's "high mileage" club.
but BMW's also call for a 2 year brake fluid change regardless of mileage.
Oh yeah....and you need the BMW proprietary "Modic" computer to do a brake fluid change. Something about releasing the ABS system (not to mention releasing BMW owners of the ability to have this done at an independent shop).
My 06 V70R suggests 3 years on the brake fluid. Not a problem though as I can reach the bleeders without having to remove the wheels. A 30 minute job at most. We will see if the 2.5 in the R will be as durable as the Red block in my P1800. Somehow I doubt it
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but BMW's also call for a 2 year brake fluid change regardless of mileage.
Oh yeah....and you need the BMW proprietary "Modic" computer to do a brake fluid change. Something about releasing the ABS system (not to mention releasing BMW owners of the ability to have this done at an independent shop).
Likewise, you need to cycle the ABS using a TechII on a GM vehicle to properly bleed the brakes.
The cold hard fact is that Volvo, a company with a reputation for being very safety conscious building reliable long-lasting vehicles that could actually be repaired has degenerated to just another overpriced, unreliable European brand (aka Audi, Jag, etc.) primarily marketed to people (one time buyers) who are routinely disappointed and dump them at the 1st opportunity, typically @ lease end.
This from the past happy owner of a 122S & 145E.
Sorry, Volvolovers: an OK new car for a company-paid lease but a nightmare to keep a day after the warranty expires.
Cheers!
p.s. Like Fiat, Alfa, Lancia (ok to own IF your son-in-law's name was Tony and worked as a mechanic at the Dealership), the daughter's hubby better be named Sven!
This from the past happy owner of a 122S & 145E.
Sorry, Volvolovers: an OK new car for a company-paid lease but a nightmare to keep a day after the warranty expires.
Cheers!
p.s. Like Fiat, Alfa, Lancia (ok to own IF your son-in-law's name was Tony and worked as a mechanic at the Dealership), the daughter's hubby better be named Sven!
More on Volvo turbos. In the old days when their (and others) turbochargers were oil-only cooled, the expected lifespan was only 80-120K miles. The newer generation turbos (since the mid to late 80’s), their expected lifespan has increased significantly. It’s not uncommon to get 300-400 K miles on a modern turbo with routine maintenance. The bottom line is don’t sweat the turbo. My S70 T5 (high pressure turbo) gets standard 5000-7500 mile oil changes with quality synthetic oil. Oil changes, filters, and plugs are not difficult to do with basic mechanic skills.
Our car has been pretty reliable. It’s not “Japanese” reliable, but it’s not Ford (I know they own them) reliable either. We’ve had two things go wrong with ours in 100 k miles. 1. The electronic throttle body failed and was replaced and software updated at 79 K, and the ABS control module failed at 99K. The throttle body was expensive $900. The ABS module I repaired myself by sending the old module in to be rebuilt (cost about $100). It was an easy fix.
I second the comment about Volvo seats. They are the best I’ve ever sat in.
The S60s drive much better than the 850/S70 series. My Brother in law’s 2001 S60 T5 has been bulletproof.
Good luck.
Our car has been pretty reliable. It’s not “Japanese” reliable, but it’s not Ford (I know they own them) reliable either. We’ve had two things go wrong with ours in 100 k miles. 1. The electronic throttle body failed and was replaced and software updated at 79 K, and the ABS control module failed at 99K. The throttle body was expensive $900. The ABS module I repaired myself by sending the old module in to be rebuilt (cost about $100). It was an easy fix.
I second the comment about Volvo seats. They are the best I’ve ever sat in.
The S60s drive much better than the 850/S70 series. My Brother in law’s 2001 S60 T5 has been bulletproof.
Good luck.
You are correct that the newer water-cooled Volvo turbos can go long distances with prudent maintenance.
But one still needs to keep in mind that even the water-cooled ones add a heightened thermal load on the oil. Consequently, it is not a great idea to use bulk fill conventionals and/or follow longer OCIs as one might with a NA white block. The oil will break down and turbo turds and sludging elsewhere can result. A 7,500 interval using the dealer fill should be strongly avoided in a turbo, IMO.
It is an interesting time for a new Volvo buyer. The present S60/V70 platform is due to be replaced very soon. So one can either buy an old but refined current platform, or wait a little longer and get an all-new design, perhaps along the lines of the new S80, which is getting very positive early reviews. FWIW, the I5 is nearing its end as well, and the chatter is that the next gen will have a six.
One thing Volvo does well is update their vehicles post-purchase. You can buy a first or second year model and while it may have some bugs, they will refine it with TNNs it to the point that by the time the thing is out of warranty, it is as reliable as the end of the model run.
With many 850s now breaking the 200k mile barrier, there is no reason to think that the P2s will not eventually enjoy similar status - IF MAINTAINED PROPERLY.
Maintenance is everything for a Volvo. It costs significantly more to maintain a Volvo than a Ford or Chevy. Which brings me back to the original point. If you can't afford to maintain one, don't expect it to hold up to its reputation.
But one still needs to keep in mind that even the water-cooled ones add a heightened thermal load on the oil. Consequently, it is not a great idea to use bulk fill conventionals and/or follow longer OCIs as one might with a NA white block. The oil will break down and turbo turds and sludging elsewhere can result. A 7,500 interval using the dealer fill should be strongly avoided in a turbo, IMO.
It is an interesting time for a new Volvo buyer. The present S60/V70 platform is due to be replaced very soon. So one can either buy an old but refined current platform, or wait a little longer and get an all-new design, perhaps along the lines of the new S80, which is getting very positive early reviews. FWIW, the I5 is nearing its end as well, and the chatter is that the next gen will have a six.
One thing Volvo does well is update their vehicles post-purchase. You can buy a first or second year model and while it may have some bugs, they will refine it with TNNs it to the point that by the time the thing is out of warranty, it is as reliable as the end of the model run.
With many 850s now breaking the 200k mile barrier, there is no reason to think that the P2s will not eventually enjoy similar status - IF MAINTAINED PROPERLY.
Maintenance is everything for a Volvo. It costs significantly more to maintain a Volvo than a Ford or Chevy. Which brings me back to the original point. If you can't afford to maintain one, don't expect it to hold up to its reputation.
FWIW - with the reference about 850's I5 engines now going past 200k, I read in a shop manual download for the '95 850, that the engine was designed for what I would guess as an average life expectancy of 200k. I'm 1/2 way there, and if everything thing else fairs, I hope to go even further. Road salt and airborne pebbles might prove otherwise.
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