OK, lets here it. What would you recommend for use in pre 1916 automobiles that use a non presurized splash/total loss system? This sytem uses holes and dippers in the rod ends for lube and drip holes for splash to flow into holes in the main bearings. I have heard many "stories" about new oils that have removed zinc causing problems.
best oil for pre 1916?
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I can't begin to help you, but I wanted to say
I had a model A Ford with splash oil system, we used what ever was there, mostly 30wt non detergent, 40wt when the rods started knocking.
Find a Model T club. They will be able to help.
A friend here at work has a few Model T's and says that a straight 30 is reccomended. He and others are using Delo 15W-40 with good results too.
Delo or Rotella 30 or 15W-40 would be a good bet.
Ed
Delo or Rotella 30 or 15W-40 would be a good bet.
Ed
Vintage oils have classic names in UK
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/pdf/silkolene/CLASSICOILS.pdf
I understand even in 1960 good quality oil (API SB) would contain some ZDDP of a primitive sort, equivalent to 300-500 parts per million of zinc, but no idea of the zinc content of oils made for vintage cars.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/pdf/silkolene/CLASSICOILS.pdf
I understand even in 1960 good quality oil (API SB) would contain some ZDDP of a primitive sort, equivalent to 300-500 parts per million of zinc, but no idea of the zinc content of oils made for vintage cars.
I know this is not the same engine as yours. But the Lister CS clone that I own has similar lubrication schemes.
The rod has 2 holes above the bearing for splash lube. It also has a drilled dipper. There is no pressure lube at all. However there is a oil pump that pushes oil through a bypass filter.
We find that 10-30 and the other multi viscosity oils result in bearing failure. Erosion, pitting or whatever it is called, is the result of multi vis oils. Straight 30 diesel oils and straight 40 diesel oils work just fine.
Chris
The rod has 2 holes above the bearing for splash lube. It also has a drilled dipper. There is no pressure lube at all. However there is a oil pump that pushes oil through a bypass filter.
We find that 10-30 and the other multi viscosity oils result in bearing failure. Erosion, pitting or whatever it is called, is the result of multi vis oils. Straight 30 diesel oils and straight 40 diesel oils work just fine.
Chris
A total loss system? Simple answer, Castor Oil.
You want to use really good synthetic oil, like Redline, Amsoil, Motul, etc. They work well in older cars with babbit bearings. You need to use the heavier multi grades, like 20-50W. I don't own any older cars of this vintage, but the few people who still race them hang around our old shop. Don't use the straight weight racing oils unless you are sure thay contain the corrosion inhibitors an old car needs.
""Erosion, pitting or whatever it is called""
Normally is caused by entrained grit or dirt causes pits and in bearing material or high acids will "corrode" the bearing also Multi wt oil alone should not cause this if the right vis grade.
bruce
Normally is caused by entrained grit or dirt causes pits and in bearing material or high acids will "corrode" the bearing also Multi wt oil alone should not cause this if the right vis grade.
bruce
WOW, pre 1916! Any pictures? Condradulations on being the owner of such a vintage auto. Those engines must have dripped alot of oil during the times when roads were still dirt. I'd like to see pictures of thie vehicle even if it's unrestored.
Sorry for my non scientific description of the bearing problems associated with thinner multi vis oils. In fact, it is not related to oil contamination. The oil circulates through a 1 micron bypass filter. It remains very clean for hundreds of hours.
The bearings in questions are not worn out or scored. They have pitting in the top shell. It is a function of the breakdown of the oil wedge formed in the bearing along with the bearing load cycle.
Thicker oils prevent this problem.
Chris
The bearings in questions are not worn out or scored. They have pitting in the top shell. It is a function of the breakdown of the oil wedge formed in the bearing along with the bearing load cycle.
Thicker oils prevent this problem.
Chris
Hey gang, I wasn't joking about castor bean oil for an engine with a total loss oiling system. Castor bean oil was used in many (most?) high performance applications up through the First World War. I've even come across accounts of some WW-I pilots having to deal with the "laxative effects" of ingesting some of the oil after it had passed through the engine. A number of sites that discuss castor oil say something similar to the following:
"Castor oil's high lubricity (reduces friction) is superior to petroleum-based lubricants; for instance, it really clings to metal, especially hot metal, and is used in racing and jet (turbine) engines."
The chances are very good that the "pre 1916 automobile" engine being discussed here was designed with castor oil in mind as its exclusive lubricant, and even if it wasn't, castor oil is probably superior in that engine to any of our modern Group III or Group IV oils.
"Castor oil's high lubricity (reduces friction) is superior to petroleum-based lubricants; for instance, it really clings to metal, especially hot metal, and is used in racing and jet (turbine) engines."
The chances are very good that the "pre 1916 automobile" engine being discussed here was designed with castor oil in mind as its exclusive lubricant, and even if it wasn't, castor oil is probably superior in that engine to any of our modern Group III or Group IV oils.
right now I use a std 10w 30w, it makes cranking a 360 CI 4 cyl engine on cold days a lot easier! I have no "speriance" with synthetics, & I have been happy with the10/30's. But recently some of my friends with similar old cars have had some cam problems with they attribute to modern oils that hae removed zinc. True or not.....I don't know, so I found this site and thought I'd ask....
FYI for pictures of my cars and some of my friends, our club website is www.hccsc.info
check out past tours page for car pics!
check out past tours page for car pics!
Thanks FB for posting those pictures. I love the title "The Horseless Carriage Club". These are some of the most beautiful cars that I have ever seen. Well done!
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