R134a refrigerant + oil -- what type of oil??

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I used the interdynamics R134a+ refreigerant on my car about 18 months ago. the container says it contains 2oz of "lubricant" but does not specify which type. the compressor is a Calsonic V6 (which I believe takes PAG 46 lube). is there any reason to believe the lubricant in the R134a recharge kit is not compatible with the Calsonic compressor and the existing PAG lube? on interdynamics website they state for top-offs to use polyol ester, and for complete evacuations/recharges to use PAG. but I've read other places that warn against mixing the two. any opinions here??

btw - the car is a '99 maxima. I think with the variable displacement compressor you can't use the pressure guages to determine when the system is charged -- so it is likely that mine is overcharged, and has a mix of polyol ester and PAG lubricant in it. how serious is this??

thanks.
 
If your OE A/C unit hasn't been taken apart for servicing, by default (unless specified with sticker under the hood/owner manual), typical R134a system already comes stock with PAG oil inside.

The likeliness of you recharging your system wrongly with aftermarket recharge refrigerant is low, unless you picked up the wrong can (there are non-PAG recharge can that comes with ester-based oil for retrofitted R12 system).

All PAG oil used in R134a systems shall be compatible to each other. It's only when you venture into different refrigerant type that would have encounter lubricant incompatability issues.

BTW: did you charge your system carefully with a gauge type recharge adaptor? Did you overcharge your system?

PAG and Ester oil shall not be mixed together (IMHO, I worked on a few retrofitting systems before). You shall consult your dealership or Nissan to find out exactly what type of oil (is it ester or PAG) in your Calsonic system? If it's PAG, you shall recharge with PAG oil type only.

Oh and BTW: OTC recharge refrigerant in-a-can typically comes with 2 types (citing "Quest" and "Interdynamics" brands) one is R134a with ester, while the other is R134a with PAG (standard). The first one is primarly meant for R12 retrofitted systems that may have some residual ester oil in the system; the latter type are standard recharge type of oil PAG.

If it's been determined that your compressor pump noise is caused by overcharging, you shall immediately consider getting your system properly serviced (R134a recovered, oil purged with a new dryer replaced, proper amount of PAG oil to be added back into the system, deep-vacuum for >30mins before recharging with R134a again) and then go from there.

Good luck!
 
quest - thank you for your replies.

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BTW: did you charge your system carefully with a gauge type recharge adaptor? Did you overcharge your system?



I did use a gague and followed the instructions, but after adding an entire can the gauge did not move. later I read that with these variable displacement compressors you cannot rely on the simple pressure gauges to accurately charge the system - rather, a precise amount of refrigerant + oil needs to be added after the system has been evacuated.
dunno.gif


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PAG and Ester oil shall not be mixed together (IMHO, I worked on a few retrofitting systems before). You shall consult your dealership or Nissan to find out exactly what type of oil (is it ester or PAG) in your Calsonic system? If it's PAG, you shall recharge with PAG oil type only.



that's what I'm afraid of. I know for a fact that PAG is the original lube. I do not know what was in the R134a can.

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OTC recharge refrigerant in-a-can typically comes with 2 types (citing "Quest" and "Interdynamics" brands) one is R134a with ester, while the other is R134a with PAG (standard).




the stuff I used is this...
http://www.id-usa.com/product.asp?CID=7&PID=215
they do not say if it is PAG or POE.

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If it's been determined that your compressor pump noise is caused by overcharging, you shall immediately consider getting your system properly serviced



I'm pretty sure the noise is just the clutch - I've been under there watching it engage/disengage and the grinding noise only happens when the clutch is stationary. however, I believe I will take your advice on getting the system properly serviced soon. I'd like to fix this clutch first though. I can borrow the special tools from Autozone, I just need to find the parts.
 
sky-

Perhaps you can do the following for me:

1. what was the rationale behind recharging your system at the first place? (no ridicule given, just wanna know why) Is your system running "not-cool"? or you figure that it's about time to service your A/C system given it's age?

2. if you may, would you plse (to the best of your abilities) take a closer look at the compressor body or near the shaft/pully are for general oily wetness or some kind of oil spray (not very heavy, something as light as sewing machine oil) under pressure?

At this point I simply cannot tell you where the fault lies but my suspicion would be ---> (*cause): overfilled A/C lubrication oil, (*consequence): causing oil spray from the shaft seal area into your clutch pack on your A/C pulley)

This will definitely happen if you overfill your A/C system with excess topoff oil.

In that case, you shall seriously consider taking your system to a reputable A/C shop and have them properly service and recharge the oil and refrigerant for you.

And yes, if you find oil spray on your clutch pack, you shall seriously consider having it replaced.

I would also strongly recommend you to go get/borrow a factory service manual for proper gaping of the clutch and alignment before you put it back into good use for servicing A/C compressor is not for faint-of-heart (yours-truely sure wouldn't touch that part with a 10ft pole, been-there,done that in my "naive" years).....

Alternatively, ask the A/C shop to see if they are experienced in replacing the clutch pack on that particular compressor pump/vehicle of yourss and see how much they charge for. If it's not too much, might as well pass the responsibility/liability to the pros.
 
quest - thanks again for all your help.
Quote:


sky-

Perhaps you can do the following for me:

1. what was the rationale behind recharging your system at the first place? (no ridicule given, just wanna know why) Is your system running "not-cool"? or you figure that it's about time to service your A/C system given it's age?



When I first bought the car in July 2005 (with 66k on it) the AC seemed to take a while to cool off the first time I used it, and didn't seem to get really cold - but it did work. so the very next day I "recharged" it with one of those cans and a recharge kit. it then seemed to work great. now, the car had been sitting idle for a few months before I bought it - maybe that had something to do with the weak AC? (that is, instead of it being low on refrigerant)?

also, the AC had never been serviced before - I have every receipt/record from the previous owner (and the dealer also has it online) so there was no previous problem with it.

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2. if you may, would you plse (to the best of your abilities) take a closer look at the compressor body or near the shaft/pully are for general oily wetness or some kind of oil spray (not very heavy, something as light as sewing machine oil) under pressure?



I will do so tomorrow and report back.

Quote:


At this point I simply cannot tell you where the fault lies but my suspicion would be ---> (*cause): overfilled A/C lubrication oil, (*consequence): causing oil spray from the shaft seal area into your clutch pack on your A/C pulley)

This will definitely happen if you overfill your A/C system with excess topoff oil.



ahh, I see what you are saying. that does sound logical, and would be consistent with what I have done to the car.

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I would also strongly recommend you to go get/borrow a factory service manual for proper gaping of the clutch and alignment before you put it back into good use for servicing A/C compressor is not for faint-of-heart (yours-truely sure wouldn't touch that part with a 10ft pole, been-there,done that in my "naive" years).....



luckily I do have the Nissan FSM for this car with the proper gapping specs.

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Alternatively, ask the A/C shop to see if they are experienced in replacing the clutch pack on that particular compressor pump/vehicle of yourss and see how much they charge for. If it's not too much, might as well pass the responsibility/liability to the pros.



yeah that's probably good advice. I'm one of those people who thinks he can do everything himself, and do it right/better than the shops -- but I'll admit AC systems are way beyond my area of skill/expertise. for some reason I just don't trust the local shops to do it right, though.

UPDATE on the R134a oil -- I emailed Interdynamics and they said the oil in the product i used is PAG100. I do believe the calsonic spec is PAG46 -- but at least it's PAG and not POE. so hopefully I don't have sludge in the system from incompatible oils.
 
Just 2 more things to add-

(a) do your homework and seek out the best A/C shop in town. don't skimp on it (the price you pay for servicing your A/C properly will be well worth it).

(b) forgot to mention to you earlier on that unlike R12 system, R134a system is not very forgiving at all in terms of weekend DIY servicing: refrigerant overcharging/undercharging, oil overfilling/underfilling, etc. Any slight mistakes that a typical amateur weekend DIYer do to their own R134a system is deemed to fail if the person doesn't know A/C systems well (I had my fair share of A/C mishaps during my apprentice days already).

Take care.

(*here we have a fairly reputable shop called "Anglo-Canadian Auto Supply" that has been in service for many decades*)
 
Not adding any useful info, but sky, we've done the *exact* same thing, although I broke mine earlier (in '02, with 40k). It cools wonderfully at low RPM, although once I hit ~2k RPM the compressor starts growling.

I think those cans shouldn't be sold. This would prevent people who want to (or think they) know everything and those who want to save $40 (not mutually exclusive groups) from breaking things.

As penance, I've driven without AC for the past 4 years. Each year, during the three real hot weeks in Pittsburgh I decide to have it fixed, but by the time I get around to making the appointment, it's cooled off. Maybe this will be the year I follow Quest's advice to find the best A/C shop in town. If the compressor's shot, want a gently used clutch pack?
 
sky-

To me the sound/pics sounds like friction material is worn(clutch pack) or metal-to-metal rubbing sound on the pulley surface. If your A/C works fine when the compressor engaged and it only makes those rubbing sound when it disengaged, yes, you shall definitely focus on your clutch pack and/or the electromagnetic clutch engaging mechanism (rubbing).

If you are confident in tackling such project, I would give you the green light to "go ahead" and service your own clutch pack. You will have to go find the replacement clutch pack in-advance by taking down the pump model number and then do online search.

Good luck! Plse post back your results and/or take photo shots when you have the pulley section off of the pump.

p.s. if A/C retains it's cold then it's definitely not the compressor bearing(s).

Q.
 
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