Musings about Honda's factory fill/when to change.

[rcy]

OK...so let me see if I have this right. Honda recommends leaving the factory fill in until the OLM (or whatever you want to call it) tells you to. It seems that the high levels of Moly (from assembly lube in the engine) in the oil 'help' during the break-in period.

Here's what I'm wondering, though. My Odyssey has 7000km on it and the OLM is somewhere between 40% and 30% (it changed from 50% to 40% about 6400km). My driving is mostly highway - 42km trip one way. In my situation, the FF will be in for somewhere around 10000 to 12000km. BUT, someone else with the same vehicle wo drives short trips may have the OLM recommend a change at say 5000 or 6000 km.

So what I'm wondering is REALLY how important is it to leave the FF as Honda recommends, when some vehicles may only have it in for a short mileage, and others for a much longer mileage. Would the engine that goes shorter distance on the FF (the short trip car) not be broken in as well as the long trip car that leaves the FF in for longer?

I'm confused. Thank you, Honda.


Just as an aside, my driving habits have recently changed to the polar opposite. Instead of 42km one way to work, I'm driving 6km to the GO train commuter station, with maybe one or two approx 50km one way trips a couple times a week. It'll be interesting to see how the OLM interprets this new data.

 

[benjamming]

How long has the oil been in the engine? There is probably a build date on the door jamb.

 

[Auto-Union]

I changed mine at 2500 mi for hi-moly Havoline and some VSOT. I would not expect there to be a problem.

 

[LouDawg]

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So what I'm wondering is REALLY how important is it to leave the FF as Honda recommends, when some vehicles may only have it in for a short mileage, and others for a much longer mileage. Would the engine that goes shorter distance on the FF (the short trip car) not be broken in as well as the long trip car that leaves the FF in for longer?

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This has been discussed ad nauseum over the past few weeks (no offense), and there just is no consensus on it. I asked the same question last month and got answers all over the spectrum. I kind of split the difference on mine (3.0L V6) and changed it when the OLM was between 30%-20% and at 5600 mostly highway miles (about 9K km).

Honda stresses over and over again to leave it in because of the "special factory blend" that probably comes from the assembly lube containing more moly than regular pcmo. But that is, at this point, merely speculation.

At the end of the day, if in doubt, I follow the manufacturer's recommendation, especially when that manufacturer is Honda. Of course, Honda just happens to be the largest engine company in the world and one of, if not (arguably) THE best, imho.

 

[rcy]

Build date was July, bought in August. LouDawg, no offense taken, I'm not really wondering WHEN I should change it, just more wondering how Honda can consider it SO important, when the oil stays in some cars for only a short time (short trips, OLM says to change early) vs. a long trip car where the oil stays in longer.

 

[LouDawg]

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Build date was July, bought in August. LouDawg, no offense taken, I'm not really wondering WHEN I should change it, just more wondering how Honda can consider it SO important, when the oil stays in some cars for only a short time (short trips, OLM says to change early) vs. a long trip car where the oil stays in longer.

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Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying and if you already know this, but I believe the maintenance minder calculates things like distance traveled, RPM's reached, total engine revolutions, etc. to determine the oci. It doesn't just base it on how many miles were traveled and how much time passed, i.e. short trips vs. long trips.

 

[rcy]

Yes, I'm aware of how the OLM works. However, it seems to me that highway driving leads the OLM to give one a longer OCI than city driving. (I said long trip vs short trip - really what I meant was highway vs city)

So, Honda is stressing that one leave the FF in till the OLM tells you to change it, but the total mileage the FF will be left in varies from vehicle to vehicle depending on the type of driving. So, if my highway driven vehicle has the FF left in for 10000km, and my neighbour's city driven vehicle has the FF left in for 5000km, will my vehicle be better off in the long run because the FF (and all the moly I guess) was in there longer?

 

[CBDFrontier06]

What the OLM is taking into account is the affect your driving habits are taking on whatever is in the pan. Highway miles are much better for oil than hundreds of 5-mile jogs to the grocery store, and it's programmed to recognize that. High temps and high-rpm shearing on the highway versus fuel and condensation dilution in town will give you these kinds of OLM results.

 

[CBDFrontier06]

What I meant to finish with above is....due to how the oil is treated in these two opposing circumstances, 5000 city miles is equal to 10,000 highway miles in the eyes of the guys that programmed the OLM.

 

[Laminar Lou]

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Yes, I'm aware of how the OLM works. However, it seems to me that highway driving leads the OLM to give one a longer OCI than city driving. (I said long trip vs short trip - really what I meant was highway vs city)

So, Honda is stressing that one leave the FF in till the OLM tells you to change it, but the total mileage the FF will be left in varies from vehicle to vehicle depending on the type of driving. So, if my highway driven vehicle has the FF left in for 10000km, and my neighbour's city driven vehicle has the FF left in for 5000km, will my vehicle be better off in the long run because the FF (and all the moly I guess) was in there longer?

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Rcy,

If I may be so bold to restate your question the way I think I understand it; "Is it more important that the engine touches the magic FF for a certain amount of time? Are vehicles that have easier miles going to break in better because they circulate the FF longer because the OLM knows that city driving is harder on the oil and therefore must be dumped earlier?"

If I understand your question correctly, I would say that Honda would rather you dump out oil that is worn out. The FF isn't so special that it can transcend worn out TBN.

 

[Laminar Lou]

The way I look at the whole Honda FF issue is this:

If I were Honda, these are the truisms I would base my recommendation to leave the FF in as long as possible:

1) The first few miles while the engine is first breaking in is critical
2) I (Honda) don't have control over what people put in the car after the FF
3) Not all consumers put the right weight oil in, because they think they know better.
4) Not all DEALERSHIPS put the right weight oil in, because they think they know better.
5) Some people think they can outsmart our engineers with initials after their names.
6) If more people spent time on BITOG I wouldn't have to worry.


That's what I think, but I am guilty of number 5

(edited for grammar)

 

[rcy]

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Rcy,

If I may be so bold to restate your question the way I think I understand it; "Is it more important that the engine touches the magic FF for a certain amount of time? Are vehicles that have easier miles going to break in better because they circulate the FF longer because the OLM knows that city driving is harder on the oil and therefore must be dumped earlier?"

If I understand your question correctly, I would say that Honda would rather you dump out oil that is worn out. The FF isn't so special that it can transcend worn out TBN.

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Never mind being bold, you've restated my question exactly as I meant it to be. It's good that somebody understands my ramblings.

 

[Laminar Lou]

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Never mind being bold, you've restated my question exactly as I meant it to be. It's good that somebody understands my ramblings.

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...and never mind it was a terribly constructed run-on sentence.

I got interrupted like 3 times when I was trying to write that. I look at it now an wince. Oh well, at least we both understand your question

 

[The Critic]

Honda's OLM goes as low as 3000 miles to as high as 10000 miles. I'd say that a minimum of 3000 miles is enough.