Picked up a screw, but still holding air......

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I just happened to look under the Explorer today, and noticed a small screw lodged in the very center of the tire tread. The head was worn, so it had been there for awhile. I pulled it out, and luckily the tire didn't leak.

After measuring the screw, it would have gone through the tread and about another 1/4" into the carcass. Any chance of this starting to leak down the road?
 
Definitely! And odds are, it will start leaking with a good blowout on the highway! I would not hesitate to immediately get it patched...
 
Just to be a little clearer:

The real issue is that the screw has opened a pathway for water to get to the steel belts.

But I'm going to bet that every tire place you go to will say not to repair the tire - and that would be understandable from their end. Why mess with something and perhaps make the situation worse?

But repaired or not, you should watch this tire for a bulge - the sign that a belt separation is starting.
 
Go get some Camel plugs, run that hole the rest of the way through with the roughing-tool, goo em up with lots of rubber-goo cement, and shove two of the plugs in there.
 
I just found one on my Camry. Tire is holding pressure, as I cheak it closely. I didn't pull it out. I am taking it to Discount Tire tomorrow.
While I am at it, I am going to ask for a new valve stem for that tire, it is out of round since day one and the cap does not screw in all the way...
 
Ok... went to DT. I told the guy about the screw, and he kept asking if it was leaking. I said not yet. He wrote on the W/O Flat Repair, Comment: Repair F/R if no good.

I saw them took the wheel off, mark the screw, took it to the back, and 3 minutes later it was back soaking wet.

Did they just pull the screw but did not patch it from the inside, or they used glue on the outside? This was too quick to be a full blown patch job. What is RMA's procedure on this?
 
They may have plugged it..

They surely did not mark it, look for the bubbles, and leave a screw in there. Funny thing about the whole screw-in-tire situation. A tire with a screw that holds air WILL spitt that screw out some day, some way.
 
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I saw them took the wheel off, mark the screw, took it to the back, and 3 minutes later it was back soaking wet.


What they did was pull out the screw, dunk it in the water test vat, and bring it back. If it wasn't leaking they did nothing.

That's basically what I did with mine; pulled the screw, and sprayed the hole with a water/soap solution. There was no air leak, so I'm running the tire. I doubt if the screw went through the belts, so I'm hoping the tire's OK.....
 
"What they did was pull out the screw, dunk it in the water test vat, and bring it back. If it wasn't leaking they did nothing."

It sounds like the correct response.
 
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"What they did was pull out the screw, dunk it in the water test vat, and bring it back. If it wasn't leaking they did nothing."

It sounds like the correct response.




I could have done it myself and not wasted 2 hrs getting there and wait. (wreck on highway stuck in traffic on my way there).

CapriRacer, does the RMA have a procedure for this?
 
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.....CapriRacer, does the RMA have a procedure for this?




No. They have one for puncture repairs, but that's the only repair procedure published. I should mention that there is a provision in the repair procedure for (and I forget the exact phrasing) "qualified tire repair professionals" to do repairs not mentioned in the RMA procedure.

In this case, I think it would be more work (read that as more expensive) than buying a new tire.

While I tend to be overly cautious in my postings, the fact remains that a small penetration to the belt represents a fairly low risk. I'd just watch the area carefully. For example, I plugged a trailer tire a few years ago (I know, I know!), and marked the sidewall with an arrow so it would be easy to find later. I'd recommend you do the same.
 
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I saw them took the wheel off, mark the screw, took it to the back, and 3 minutes later it was back soaking wet.


What they did was pull out the screw, dunk it in the water test vat, and bring it back. If it wasn't leaking they did nothing.

That's basically what I did with mine; pulled the screw, and sprayed the hole with a water/soap solution. There was no air leak, so I'm running the tire. I doubt if the screw went through the belts, so I'm hoping the tire's OK.....




Don't worry about the tire. Millions of tires get punctured every year and there isn't a plug or patch on the market that will "unpuncture" it or restore a broken belt. All any of the repairs do is stop the tire from leaking. If the liner of the tire is holding air there isn't any way to improve on that.

This isn't a blowout waiting to happen or anything else. That being said, you should regularly check your tires for wear and deterioration. Some of the worst cases of belt and tire failure I've ever had were on tires that never had a nail or other hole in them.

Assuming you've got light truck tires on your Explorer the tires are extra heavy duty in construction to survive rough use. Just try to remember to look them over once a month. If you start getting vibration or you see bald spots or lumps coming up on the tire, it's time to go tire shopping.
 
Proper repair method for a radial tire is either a patch or a plug-patch. SO if you patched it what would you gain from a non-leaky tire? The plugs (tarry braided cord stuff stuffed in a hole) are not to be used as they get cut up by the steel belts and start to leak.
 
I was taught to quote the official party line when I was trained in a Goodyear Company store. The only way to properly repair a tire was to break it down and patch it from the inside, etc, etc.

What I actually saw before, during and since that experience is that getting the old style internal patches to work properly is the hardest thing to do *right* when fixing a flat; therefore they result in the highest rate of repair failures. Getting the inside of the tire liner clean enough to accept adhesive for the patch is extremely difficult in the cold patch systems(given the mold release agents, water and oil from air compressors, and other assorted gunk on the inside of tires). Don't even get me started on the old hot vulcanization repairs we used to do where we literally built a fire inside the tire and melted (fused) a patch in place over the puncture from the inside. It makes me cough just thinking about it. That's why it used to cost $25.00+ to get a flat fixed "correctly".

On the flip side I have never seen a plug fail even when installed poorly or in a "non-repairable" area of the tire like on the shoulder of a radial, nor have I seen a tire failure originate at a typical repair of any kind (although Goodyears first rule used to be that *any* puncture automatically voided all warranties.) It used to be tough for me to tell a customer their warranty wouldn't cover the broken belts and separated tread on a tire because it had a patch on the opposite side from where the #@$%! tire had come apart, particularly when we were honoring the warranty on the three other tires on the car because they didn't have patches in them.

I used to bad-mouth plugs, but over the years I have changed my mind. By now I've plugged literally hundreds of tires, many without even taking them off the car or jacking the wheel up. Just remove the offending object, run the rasp in and out of the hole a few times (if the puncture went through in the first place) Leave the rasp in the hole while you find the plug, plug tool, and slather it up with adhesive. Pull out the rasp, shove in the plug leaving about 1/2" to 3/4" sticking out and remove the plug tool. Air it up and let it sit while you write up the ticket and cash the customer out. Trim the excess with a pair of dykes, check pressure again and tell the customer to keep it below ~55 mph and check pressure at each stop for a couple of days. I have never had a plug come back, I've had customers come back for something else, but never for a bad/leaky plug.

That's not to say the tire is perfect or shouldn't be routinely inspected, but much of the bad press floating around about tire repairs in general and plug repairs in particular originate from people in the tire business trying to sell more tires and more expensive services. I don't fault anybody for repeating what they've been told by experts, but some of those experts don't have saving money on tires as their top priority for everyone they meet.
liar.gif


I can't count how many tires I've worn out of my own that I've plugged (sometimes multiple plugs or even double plugs for big holes) without problems. Since most places fixing flats tend to put the lowest guy on the totem pole on fixing flats anyway (read least trained/least experienced) You also don't have worry about a lot of other things that can get screwed up when you hand your keys to somebody with a name tag on their shirt. (no offense guys, you know what I mean if you're working in the business)
 
Anyone remember "Point / CounterPoint"? I think it was a segment of 60 minutes.

Anyway, WalterMitty did "Point" - I'll do "Counterpoint"!

First let me set the stage.

If you have an activity that has a certain risk to it and the consequences of a failure are quite severe - for example, flying - then you have to be careful with the $$ vs benefit arguement.

True, a repair is relatively inexpensive compared to the cost of a new tire - and a plug less expensive still - but if the tire fails as a result - and we know that some tire failures result in loss of life - then the cost vs benefit has to be fairly extreme.

I've seem plenty of tires where the tire failed and the repair was the source of the failure. I'll bet that the person who experienced the tire failure didn't even think to go back to where his tire was repaired to seek reimbursement. Ergo, it shouldn't be surprising that someone might repair hundreds of tires and never get feedback regarding a tire failure.

Let's try putting this in terms of failure rates: If hundreds of tires have been repaired - let's call that 1,000 - and 1 out of 100 fail in some way - that would be a total of 10.

By way of comparison, tire failure rates of 1 out of 1,000 - well, this is higher than what was reported during the Firestone situation.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a reason why there are rules about tire repairs and I don't think WalterMitty is in a position to correctly assess the situation.
 
And there you have it from a "Tire Engineer" (is that right Capri?). You should replace your tire any time you have a flat.

I will also muse that in the hundreds (thousands?) of warranty reviews I have done in a variety of industries, most companies (and especially engineers) tend to attribute *any* product failures with *anything* they can attribute to the customers use/misuse of the product. Given the proclivity of leak repairs in the entire population of tires in service at any given time, a biased observer should have no trouble blaming product failures on repairs a significant amount of the time. While that hasn't worked well for Firestone, et al, I'm sure it will continue.

I will continue repairing (specifically plugging) tires (and flying on airplanes) even though the cost/benefit in any individual case will never work out if I should subsequently be killed.
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So the observer is left to ponder their own course. Just realize you're much more likely to be killed by catastrophic tire failure due to poor inflation and maintenance issues that whether or not a small rubber plug is sticking in a spot once occupied by a rusty nail.
 
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most companies (and especially engineers) tend to attribute *any* product failures with *anything* they can attribute to the customers use/misuse of the product




sarcasm
Well, of course--the product would never fail if it was never used...
/sarcasm
 
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most companies (and especially engineers) tend to attribute *any* product failures with *anything* they can attribute to the customers use/misuse of the product




sarcasm
Well, of course--the product would never fail if it was never used...
/sarcasm





Things are funny like that...
pat2.gif
 
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And there you have it from a "Tire Engineer" (is that right Capri?). You should replace your tire any time you have a flat.....




I'm afraid you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

But let's take a different approach, something along the lines of sharing experiences and see if we can learn something along the way.

Since we've started this discussion about plug-type repairs, let's continue down that path.

Here's what I've experienced:

I used to do tire testing at a courier service - a scheduled pickup and delivery service that operated on predetermined routes and stops. They had a fleet of cars that were based in several locations, but the cars were absolutely controlled by that location. I would supply tires to them and they would mount them and return the tires when they were finished with them. I inspected the tires about once a month - wear profile and pressure. They put on over 8,000 miles a month and once a month went in for oil change and routine maintenance. I saw pretty close to 100% of the tires I supplied. From that I was able to understand the wide range of things that happens to tires and to be able to put percentages to these.

While I wasn't happy that they used plugs to repair punctures, it gave me an opportunity to observe how many they used and what happened to the tires. This fleet experienced about a 10% puncture rate - which has since been confirmed from other sources as being typical.

The one part of the equation I couldn't know directly was how many plugs had to be replaced because they leaked. But I was able to ask the mechanic. He said about 10% of the plugs had to be replaced - most of them in the initial repair, but about 25% of those at a later date. He mentioned that the need for replacement seem to be tied to a particular batch of plugs and when he experienced this he tossed the remaining plugs and bought another batch.

There are a couple of interesting statistics that come out of this experience:

Punctures occur in about 10% of the tires.

Plugs leak about 10% of the time.

That means that 1% of the tires had a leaking problem. I was able to connect some of the plugs leaking to the pressure checks I made. This is especially significant in that virtually none of the tires that I supplied leaked.

Occasionally I would encounter a tire that had been run flat. 90% of the time I could find the puncture - some of those had plugs. I assumed at the time that the other 10% were punctured in an area that has since been damaged by running the tire flat - basically the sidewall. I have since found other studies that confirm this figure.
I never saw a durability problem with the tires I supplied. Looking back I determined that even though I supplied hundreds of tires, the statistics on durability failures would say that I needed to supply 1,000's of tires to get some. I am sure some of this was due to the locale - Florida, which is only #5 on the states most likely to experience a durability failure not factoring in the effect of vehicle population.

I should mention that because I inspected the tires every month, I had a good handle on the inflation situation and pointed out to the mechanic which vehicles needed attention. I am sure this had a very positive affect on the popluation of tires.

OK, that's just a taste of where I am coming from. I'm sure that will generate questions, so……………
 
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