Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deisel

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First time poster here, thanks in advance for your time and opinions.

I have a 2001 GMC Duramax truck that had the injectors fail and fill the motor with deisel fuel to the point where it was blowing out of the fill tube. There is a GM service bulliten that was issued that says they have extended the warranty on teh injectors to 200,000 miles and 10 years so the local dealer replaced them under warranty. I told them at that time I didn't think that running deisel fuel inside that motor had done it any good and that the whole motor was suspect in my opinion and was told that "deisel contains some oil so it won't damage anything". I got 2144 miles before a bearing spun and now my motor is trashed and they are telling me that the area rep is denying my warranty coverage because the truck is out of the official 100,000 mile 5 year warranty by 9 months. My point is that the injector failure flooded the engine with solvent, basically, and washed all oil away from the contact areas which caused the failure and the mechanic who is working on it at the local dealership agrees with me completely. I'm looking at $15,600 to get it replaced. I was hoping for some expert opinions on the lubricating properties of deisel fuel as an oil substitute. I'm no expert but I suspect that deisel is not really acceptable as an engine lubricant, and I suspect that the oil pump would not pump it as the viscosity is so low. Any help/tips/advice/pointers towards anything printed that says DO NOT ADD DEISEL FUEL TO YOUR ENGINE, IT WILL DAMAGE IT would be greatly appreciated as the motor is torn apart as I type this and they are awaiting the new engine.
 
Fuel in your oil is never a good thing to have, diesel may be classified as a fuel oil, but definitely not an oil subsitute, as it may lube surfaces it does not have the same properties and characteristics as Engine Oil.

I think you need to go a step higher over the dealership to get some REAL answers
 
As a previous GM dealership medium/heavy truck mechanic I can tell you that the previous injector failure that filled your crankcase caused this failure, no boubt in my mind.

"deisel contains some oil so it won't damage anything"
POPYCOC!!!

The diesel fuel does have a little bit of lubricity to it and I do mean a little and is only enough to lubricate the injector internals that are designed to be lubricated by the fuel. It does not have the lubricity needed to lubricate bearing's, gears, cylinder wall's/pistons and so on. The fuel offered very little lubrication to the bearing's and they were wiped because of this.

If they want something in writing that states that "DO NOT ADD DEISEL FUEL TO YOUR ENGINE, IT WILL DAMAGE IT" simply pull out your owners manual and ask them to show you in the owners manual where it sais you can add diesel fuel to your oil. Also ask them to show you where diesel fuel is API rated for use in your diesel engine. You will get some dumb looks because they will be stumped.

Next, contact GM customer care and complain about the dealership screwing you around.

I stopped by the dealership I worked at a couple of weeks ago and was speaking with the owner and asked him how thing's were going. I got a sad look and was told "Not to good". Apparently in the last couple of years they have gone from doing 70% cash work / 30% warrenty work to now doing 30% cash work / 70% warrenty work apparantely due to increased new vehicle warrenty's. Let's just say the dealership does not make as much money doing warrenty work as they do doing normal cash work. On top of decreased sales and foreign competition they are hurting. I'm sure your dealership is in the same boat and is trying to deny this claim so they can actually make some money on the repair.
 
Many people back off when the area rep barks his decision. They will always try to intimidate you into submission, that's their job.

For $15,000 dollars, I would not hesitate to consult a lawyer. Even though this does not fall under the lemon law guidelines, if you Google Arizona Lemon Law lawyers, you will get many hits for lawyers that specialize in automotive cases. If they are confident you will win, often there is a very small up front charge (under $300) to process the case. In many cases, corporations settle up front with lawyers instead of risking higher costs.

I have successfully battled to win an out of warranty head bolt problem on an '85 Celebrity and also a Lemon Law buy back for an early model Neon.

Go Get Em! And....don't rely to heavily on expert opinion from forums. Get real help.
 
The engine damage almost certainly resulted from your sump being filled with diesel fuel. The spun bearing was caused by the injector failure which is covered by a 200 mile 10 year warranty. Do not back off on this point. Get your dealership's response in writing, then have it addressed in writing by a lawyer.
 
1) 10yr/200Kmi warranty on injectors
2) Engine was filled to the brim with diesel fuel due to faulty fuel injectors.
3) Produce regular engine oil change receipts and related service records.

With those three, I dont see how you could loose this case?

G/luck
Joel
 
shoot we used to use kerosene (#1 fuel oil) to clean greasy/oily parts.

diesel is just #2 fuel oil.

without a doubt, the diesel in the engine caused the problem. anyone ever heard of a diesel spinning a bearing at 100,000 when proper maintenance was applied.

definetly get a lawyer.
 
Definitely take it to the next level. I have dozens of UOA that show high bearing wear with diesel contamination of the oil. Once there is a fair amount of wear, it continues at a higher rate.
The dealers try to get out of things. A few years ago my starter went out on my Cutlass Supreme. I was out of town when my wife picked up the car and they tricked her into paying $260 because it wasn't covered. I wrote Oldsmobile, with the details and received a check in a few weeks.
 
Keep us posted on how this turns out for you. With the bad luck everyone had with the conversion diesels gm did back in the day you would think they would stand behind this a bit better. Them old diesels are the reason I drive a dodge - cummins.
 
Key point . . . for the fuel injectors to have done what they allegedly did, it WOULD have degraded performance AND fuel economy to the point that ANYBODY would have noticed that something was wrong--period. Even ONE injector with too high of a flow will cause a "smoke"/economy/power problem (by observation from our customers with those engines), not to mention probably setting a "Check Engine" light code (which would generate data that could be read with the appropriate scan tool!!).

Yes, GM did extend the warranty on the Duramax injectors from what it originally was, but (by observation) most customers brought their trucks in as soon as they noticed something wrong in performance and fuel economy--not waiting until the internal guts were bathed in diesel and spitting it out. To me, that would be a "user issue" rather than a factory warranty issue--due to the time which elapsed between the actual malfunction and when the owner took the vehicle in for repair. An owner worrying about downtime or costs is not a factor here--the owner had to have noticed a significant driveability issue and neglected to get it fixed expeditiously.

Now, you need to address the reason for a bearing to spin, which would relate to "bearing crush" rather than "bearing wear", generally. To effectively address this, you would have had to know the amount of torque that it took to break the connecting rod nuts/bolts loose when you remove the rod "cap". Less assembly torque initially might ultimately result in a bearing not having sufficient "crush" in the assembled connecting rod to keep the inserts stationary in there. Yet with electronic monitoring of assembly tools, this would be an outside chance, not to mention paying attention to when the engine is torn down after the failure! Both issues are probably a little on the fringes and could not be proven (beyond a shadow of a doubt) at this time, I suspect.

Key point . . . injector failure might have diluted the engine oil, which might have resulted in a bearing spinning, but at the mileage you mentioned, this would be under the basic warranty coverage that was expired at the time of failure. Proving "collateral damage" from the injector issue would be the issue here.

Also, please consider that GM factory reps and the engineers that have intimate knowledge of their products (from doing some of the things that many customers seem to do, in their R&D/Service activities) very possibly have a better handle on what it takes to orchestrate particular failures (as your engine had). For example, they have published a TSB on "power adders" and how they can cause failures in Duramax diesel engines (so those in the field can recognize these things when they see them in failed engines).

It's really easy to make the customer out to be the "victim" in these situations, but when you consider the knowledge base of the factory operatives, customers that typically neglect to get their vehicles repaired (especially when a known extended warranty exists!) and then a failure occurs (which could possibly be collateral, but separate) can be their own victims.

IF the bearing that spun had also been loose enough to have a "bearing knock" and lower oil pressure immediately after the injector replacement, THAT would have been a much better indication of collateral damage (from the injector issue) than if it happened after the injector repair was done and had accumulated a good number of miles (which would indicate everything was OK).

It is regrettable that you had such a failure on your Duramax, but it's the customer's/owner's responsibility to take care of maintenance issues (including driveability, which can also affect exhauast emissions!) whether it's a private owner or a fleet. Waiting until "it quits" does not indicate an owner's high priority of maintaining their vehicle in "normal" condition, unfortunately.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
Quote:


fill the motor with deisel fuel to the point where it was blowing out of the fill tube.


Holy cow Certainly this did not happen in just a few miles? Was this motor not running very poorly before it got to this stage. I would think oil pressure would have been very low along with a rising oil level. It would be nice if GM had done a longer warranty on the motor but from what I have seen they did not in this case, it looks like they only covered the injection system. A UOA of the contaminated oil would have been a real good idea and money well spent. You may want to seek some legal advice given the money involved. All I can say is good luck. I know three coworkers that have found out the hard way how expensive diesels can be after the warranty is gone.
 
xBlackoutx
GM can not fix a problem until they are made aware of it.
By your own admission you did not take it to the dealership until it was blowing diesel fuel out the oil filler tube. You ignored the failing oil pressure-You ignored the excessive smoke= You ignored the poor performance.
When you took it in they repaired it but it was too late your stupidity had already ruined it. GM owes you nothing. You did something really stupid and now you get to pay for it. Anyone with an IQ higher than outside temperature would have known their was something wrong with that truck way before you took it in for service.
 
Lets be easy on this guy? I have done plenty of things I am not proud of either. I trashed some engines and other parts from my ignorance in my youth. Let him whom has not made a mistake cast the first stone!

If all else fails, buy a junkyard engine and have a shop install it for you. Tow your truck out of the dealership and go on with life. Hang in there, life will get better.
 
if a service writer told me that garbage, first thing I would say is "you can tell the same thing to my lawyer" nuff said
 
I sued Chevy on a nothing case, and won:) I basically sued because the area rep disrespected me, and it didn't cost anything becasue the lawyer took a contigency. He wouldn't take the Truck in for service again becasue he said it was only a little squeek, lol. He informed me I had no case, and I never mentioned sueing at all, I just wanted my Truck fixed, lol. I had nothing to lose so I made an appointment with a law dog. Even the lawyer said the case was a dog. To both of our suprise Chevy settled for 10k for a squeeky crossmember, lol. Chances are if you can get a lawyer signed up, they will settle. It costs them too much to fight, and if the case isn't frivilous they have no recourse. Clearly your case isn't frivilous, it is possible that the injector problem caused the failure, but yes you need to have a mechanic that says that is likely what happened. But hire a lawyer first, he will direct you to a mechanic that speaks the language you'll need. I will never buy another Chevy, go get them! Next time buy a Cummins.
 
Ouch! I agree, hire a lawyer and go after them. My theory on the failure is a bit different. I agree that diesel would have very limited lubricating properties, even when mixed with crankcase oil, but I suspect that most of the damage to the bearing(s) was caused by air whipped into the "oil" by the crank and the resulting loss of pressure and lubrication.
 
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