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#745044 - 10/12/06 09:41 PM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: Pablo]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29134
Loc: NJ
I'd love to get a hold of that. BTW, is that your favorite ice cream? They opened up a nice gellato place near me about 2 years ago. That be some good stuff dawg.
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#745045 - 10/17/06 11:19 AM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: buster]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17697
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Quote:

Quote:

Not all synthetic oils meet Acura’s HTO-06 standard.
In fact, using the wrong oil in a high-performance
turbocharged engine leads to accumulated deposits
in the engine, which reduces performance and
causes engine wear. In exhaustive testing conducted
by Acura engineers, Mobil 1 produced no critical
deposits on critical engine components such as
the seal ring, shaft, and the turbo walls.




I believe some young poster once said he would use a conventional oil in a Turbo. I wouldn't!



Yep. If synthetic wasn't required, you bet that I'd use conventional oil in a WRX.

This test proves that M1's performance is superior to other over the counter oils. Yes, ExxonMobil probably paid to create a joint brochure with Honda/Acura, but all testing was done in-house at Honda R/D.

After all, do you really expect a manufacturer (vehicle) to release the data for their in-house tests? I mean, nearly all of the tests that go on in the labs are considered proprietary. Their intent here was not to sell oil, if they were, then putting the brand names on there would make sense. But they're simply trying to illustrate how much better M1 tested out to be hence their justification for choosing it.

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#745046 - 10/17/06 11:46 AM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: The Critic]
TooSlick Offline


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 5785
Loc: Dixie
It's fine for a vehicle manufacturer to have a "captive" spec for a part, as long as they can show no other part(fluid) can meet or exceed it. However in order for this process to be legal, the test specifications have to be released so that other oil companies can offer a competitive product. Or else you would have no choice but to use Mobil 1 in this engine, which is not legal under US law (ask Ekpolk).

For example, I'm sure the PAO/Ester based, GC/0w-30 could meet this spec if tested and other PAO based synthetics could as well. But Mobil was under no obligation to test all the synthetics in the marketplace for this application - I'd guess they simply tested the first three in terms of market share (M1,Syntec,Pennzoil/QS). You'll note that one of the other OTS synthetics (likely the 5w-30 Syntec), also passed this test. So technically you could use that oil and still meet the Honda warranty requirements....

TS

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#745047 - 10/17/06 11:57 AM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: TooSlick]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17697
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Quote:

It's fine for a vehicle manufacturer to have a "captive" spec for a part, as long as they can show no other part(fluid) can meet or exceed it. However in order for this process to be legal, the test specifications have to be released so that other oil companies can offer a competitive product. Or else you would have no choice but to use Mobil 1 in this engine, which is not legal under US law (ask Ekpolk).



True, but only if you aren't under extended warranty. Extended warranties are service contracts which are not necessarily protected by the Magnuson-Moss Act.

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#745048 - 10/17/06 12:01 PM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: The Critic]
Gurkha Offline


Registered: 05/30/04
Posts: 855
Loc: India
M-I has kept my Honda V6 running at around 535000 miles so I guess its a valid point here.

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#745049 - 10/17/06 04:04 PM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: Gurkha]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29134
Loc: NJ
I agree with the Critic. Good point. As I said, it's not always about $$. It's about the performance of the product. M1 is chosen for a reason and Honda R/D confirmed this.
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#745050 - 10/18/06 04:12 AM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: TooSlick]
BrianWC Offline


Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 6873
Loc: Louisiana
Quote:

It's fine for a vehicle manufacturer to have a "captive" spec for a part, as long as they can show no other part(fluid) can meet or exceed it. However in order for this process to be legal, the test specifications have to be released so that other oil companies can offer a competitive product. Or else you would have no choice but to use Mobil 1 in this engine, which is not legal under US law (ask Ekpolk).

For example, I'm sure the PAO/Ester based, GC/0w-30 could meet this spec if tested and other PAO based synthetics could as well. But Mobil was under no obligation to test all the synthetics in the marketplace for this application - I'd guess they simply tested the first three in terms of market share (M1,Syntec,Pennzoil/QS). You'll note that one of the other OTS synthetics (likely the 5w-30 Syntec), also passed this test. So technically you could use that oil and still meet the Honda warranty requirements....

TS




Yeah, but look how they are phrasing it....

Quote:


To prevent engine damage that may not be covered
by your warranty, look for an engine oil that displays
Acura’s HTO-06 standard on the label.




There's wiggle room even in that statement....

It's not captive, it only looks that way.
_________________________
2002 Honda CR-V EX AWD
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
2014 Ford Mustang GT

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#745051 - 10/18/06 06:37 AM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: BrianWC]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29134
Loc: NJ
Quote:

I'm sure the PAO/Ester based, GC/0w-30 could meet this spec if tested and other PAO based synthetics could as well. But Mobil was under no obligation to test all the synthetics in the marketplace for this application - I'd guess they simply tested the first three in terms of market share (M1,Syntec,Pennzoil/QS). You'll note that one of the other OTS synthetics (likely the 5w-30 Syntec), also passed this test. So technically you could use that oil and still meet the Honda warranty requirements....






Obviously other oils will meet this specification. The test simply shows that Honda tested various synthetics on the shelf, and found M1 to be the best performer of the bunch. I just find it funny how many people rip on Mobil 1, yet it is factory fill in some of the world's finest cars, made by some of the finest automotive engineers. We know it's not the best, but all things considered, it's ________ good. Keeping the engine clean and free of deposits is an overlooked advantage of PAO/Ester synthetics.

Terry is big on using AutoRx and LC. I've yet to see any proof that either of these products are needed in a well formulated synthetic oil. I havn't ran across anyone that has used Mobil 1 or Amsoil and ended up needed an engine cleaner. In fact, most find their engines to be spotless when using a high end synthetic. I would exclude those that run 20k mile drains from my statement, but even those, not many talk about deposits/sludge etc.
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#745052 - 10/18/06 07:04 AM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: buster]
BGK Offline


Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 564
Loc: Northern California
There is no way Honda (same as Acura) could make RL, Amsoil or RP THE approved oil for the RDX even if they met all their test requirements because of their limited distribution network. Customers would not be happy trying to find these boutique oils. I wish Honda released data on the other oils tested and the results of their tests.

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#745053 - 10/18/06 08:45 AM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: BGK]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17697
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Quote:

There is no way Honda (same as Acura) could make RL, Amsoil or RP THE approved oil for the RDX even if they met all their test requirements because of their limited distribution network. Customers would not be happy trying to find these boutique oils. I wish Honda released data on the other oils tested and the results of their tests.



Not true. Saab, for years, distributed/bottled Elf Evolution 0w30 under the brand name "Saab LongLife oil," and was sold exclusively at dealership parts counters. If a product truly met their needs like no other product would, the OEM would find a way for it to be catered to meet service fill's demand. Think of BMW's special High Performance Synthetic Oil...the only approved product with no OTC equivalent.

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#745054 - 10/18/06 06:09 PM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: Gurkha]
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19280
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Quote:

M-I has kept my Honda V6 running at around 535000 miles so I guess its a valid point here.




You can't argue with those awesome results! That has to be the highest mileage anyone on here has gotten out of their car. What year is your car? I'm assuming it's an Accord V6?
_________________________
2005 Corvette (M1 5w30 & Fram Ultra)
2006 Civic EX Coupe (M1 0w20 & Fram Ultra)
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive (M1 0w40 & Mann filter)

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#745055 - 10/18/06 06:55 PM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: Pablo]
RinconVTR Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 137
Loc: Milwaukee
Quote:

Buster - I assume Honda has an approved TP (Test Procedure) for the overall oil test (Note to self, find out the TP number) And I assume Honda has document revision control on this TP.

A real scoop would be to get the latest revision of the Honda TP. Within this multipage document are all the juicy details of testing a submitted motor oil. I can't assume this test is ONLY "deposit control", if Honda is accepting or rejecting a motor oil for "approval".

There might be some interesting reference specifications and testing procedures called out in the TP. The equipment list would be a fun read as well.

Get your paws on that TP and you would be one famous dude on BiTOG!




The first guy to post any companies Test Procedure, will be the first person via BITOG to go to jail! Test Procedures's, Process Specs, Material Specs, etc.. are highly all confidential documents. For one to sneak out will no doubt lead to an investigation with charges. So, if you do happen to stumble upon one...I wouldnt post it anywhere!

(Honda doesnt even want their TSB's posted for public viewing...but they are not confifential documents and not "illegal" to post)

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#745056 - 10/18/06 07:15 PM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: RinconVTR]
G-MAN Offline


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 8854
Loc: SC
Quote:

The first guy to post any companies Test Procedure, will be the first person via BITOG to go to jail! Test Procedures's, Process Specs, Material Specs, etc.. are highly all confidential documents. For one to sneak out will no doubt lead to an investigation with charges. So, if you do happen to stumble upon one...I wouldnt post it anywhere!




But according to most who have posted in the "Ethics" threads in the General Forum, it would be the "ethical" thing to do.

_________________________
2010 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro: Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w30
2008 Ford Taurus X: MaxLife 5w20; MaxLife ATF

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#745057 - 10/18/06 07:56 PM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: G-MAN]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46627
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA

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#745058 - 10/19/06 02:18 AM Re: Results of Honda/Acura HTO-06 Test _ Mobil 1 [Re: The Critic]
BrianWC Offline


Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 6873
Loc: Louisiana
Quote:

Quote:

There is no way Honda (same as Acura) could make RL, Amsoil or RP THE approved oil for the RDX even if they met all their test requirements because of their limited distribution network. Customers would not be happy trying to find these boutique oils. I wish Honda released data on the other oils tested and the results of their tests.




Yes, but SAAB never said it was the only oil you could use. They did just like Honda is doing and giving you the IMPRESSION you need to use it. SAAB was very effective at convincing SAAB owners they could only use NGK sparkplugs even though there is absolutely nowhere they state you MUST use them.
They do
Not true. Saab, for years, distributed/bottled Elf Evolution 0w30 under the brand name "Saab LongLife oil," and was sold exclusively at dealership parts counters. If a product truly met their needs like no other product would, the OEM would find a way for it to be catered to meet service fill's demand. Think of BMW's special High Performance Synthetic Oil...the only approved product with no OTC equivalent.


_________________________
2002 Honda CR-V EX AWD
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
2014 Ford Mustang GT

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