505.01 oil options ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
1,407
Location
Vail, Colorado
I'm leaning towards Amsoil DEO 505.01 oil for VW PD engines.

Any opinions?

What are the other good option other forum members have found?
deadhorse.gif
 
My Dad has a new 06 TDI Jetta. He tried Castrol TXT and got an avg of 43mpg. Switched to the new Maxlife 5W-30 Synthetic that's 505.01 certified (says right on the back of the bottle and I spoke to Valvoline) and achieved 51mpg with an avg of 49mpg running it. I recommend running the Maxlife Synthetic.
 
I've used Motul, Elf, and Pentosin. Of those, Pentosin Pentosynth gave the best UOAs. I didn't notice a difference in mileage with any of the 505.01 oils. From what I've seen in UOAs, Castrol TXT borders on mediocre.
Note that each of the above oils are GIII.
For a true synthetic, the Amsoil DEO would be a good choice.
 
I believe the new CJ-4 rated, Amsoil 5w-40/DEO will provide better wear protection and lower oil consumption than their 5w-40/AFL formulation in this engine....

The Amsoil DEO is essentally using a more robust version of the same additive chemistry used in the Amsoil European oil. Both are 8 TBN formulations, but the ZDDP levels are significantly higher in the DEO (don't ask how I know). The HT/HS viscosity of the DEO is also about 15% higher, ie 4.2 Cp, vs 3.7 Cp for the AFL. Given that the valvetrain design of the PD engine generates very high pressures on the cam lobes and lifters, the thicker lube should reduce the iron levels somewhat.

NONE of the Vw 505.01 formulations is very good, including Amsoils. The API/CJ-4, engine sequence test matrix is extremely tough to pass by comparison....

TS
 
Quote:


NONE of the Vw 505.01 formulations is very good




Why do you think that is, TooSlick? Is it maybe due to some engineering compromise?
 
Last edited:
I think it's related to the whole low ash/low sulphated ash requirement - i.e. less goodies in the add pack (particularly the TBN boosting Ca based additives)
 
Well, does this mean that, for example, the new M1 ESP Formula 5W-40 can by default be considered sub-par compared to other oils that are not low SAPS? (I realize M1 EPS Formula 5W-40 doesn't carry the VW 505.01 rating)
 
I have been using series 9000 in my daughters PD VW since new. It now has 25,000 on it. Oil consumption is ZERO and the cam still has the lobes attached. It seems the requirement is low ash, and the Series 9000 info says that it is a low ash formula but don't remember seeing a number for it. I have been using it also in my Cummins, and 300D turbo Benz ever since it was available in 5 gallon buckets. My Moto Guzzi air cooled bike gets it also even though manual says 20W50
 
MBMan,

Pablo has it correct...the ho-hum performance of the VW 505.01 oils is directly due to the reduced additive levels. Both the significantly reduced levels of alkaline detergent/dispersants and the drastic reduction in ZDDP in some of these formulations. The original (CI-4+) Amsoil 5w-40 had about 1100 ppm/1400 ppm of P/Zn repectively. The new VW 505.01 stuff has only about 700 ppm/800 ppm of P/Zn. The other factor specific to Amsoil is that the HT/HS viscosity of their 5w-40/AFL has been reduced by about 10% in order to improve fuel efficiency. I don't think this will be an issue for gas engines, but it is for diesels due to the presence of soot and it's affect on valvetrain wear.

I'd be surprised if the Mobil ESP works as well as Delvac 1 in VW/Audi engines, particularly the older ones with direct acting camshafts. But time will tell, I suppose.

TS
 
With wear on the cams and lifters, its the potential nickel content surely, if UOA means anything? As for the other aspects of 505.01 e.g. "ho-hum" performance - is this opinion or based on fact? It is the 506.01 that have reduced ZDDP, not the old (its not new by any standards, but has worked!) 505.01 formulation, which is mid Saps. But instead of high levels of ZDDP, 506.01 uses this in combination with borate esters, IIRC.
 
From what I was told by AMSOIL at the Fall Meeting in Richmond, the DEO is not 505.01 compliant. They still recommend the AFL European oil for that specification.
 
I've just noticed that Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic 5W-30 and 10W-30 SM/CF oils are rated 505.01 (by Valvoline), so it would seem the universe is expanding for PD-TDI owners. Unfortunately I've not seen that oil for sale anywhere on my island, so I'll probably stick with the Castrol TXT I'm now using.
 
Quote:


Doesn't Mobil 1 0w-40 meet that spec?



Nope. The PD engine requires 505.01 or better, M1 0w40 only meets 505.00.

M1 0w40 is suitable for older TDI engines, but not the best.

I think with 3 years of experience with the PD engines in North America, we still don't know what is the best choice. All the 505.01-rated oils seem to be okay for the normal OCI, but it's hard to rank them from best to worst.
 
Ask and ye shall receive. I was in Wally World yesterday and of course cruised the oil lane. Scored 5 quarts of Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic 5W-30 and, yes, the bottle has 505.01 on it. Didn't see any 10W-30. At $5.00 per quart, it ain't cheap, but it's cheaper than Castrol TXT, for which I paid over $8.00 per quart at the dealer.
 
Can someone enlighten me as to what exactly is the 505.01 spec, and/or advise weather or not it is a good idea (or moot) to use it in a supercharged gasoline powered application? I am not an oil enthusiast at all so a lot of the jargon thrown around in the threads I've already read don't add up to much...
The reason I ask - today I was given, (that's right, free) several quarts of Castrol TXT 505 01 5w40 API SJ...

So, what is TXT 505.01 and what makes it "Special Edition for pump-nozzle engines** (nowhere on the bottle's documentation or lables do I see what the ** indicates...)

To elaborate on the engine may use it in - a Honda SOHC 1.6 4 cylinder (D16A6), built, supercharged ~200whp, 165tq. No intercooler/aftercooler, so that = hot boost and subsequently elevated combustion temps. Since break in, I have used only Mobil 1. The car doesn't see much annual mileage so oil changes are infrequent. The M1 that I need to drain is definately pre-reformulation.

If this is not the place to ask, I apologize. I just jumped on the newest 505.01 thread in hopes for a quick education/reply.

Thanks!
-TJ
 
Castrol TXT is a Group III synthetic motor oil, mainly intended for VW TDI engines. It is an interim specification, and should be superceded in another year or two. I don't think it would hurt anything to run it in your Honda, but the Mobil 1 is probably better -- many TDI drivers think the Mobil 1 5w40 is better than any of the Elf/Motul/Castrol 505.01-spec motor oils for our engines. So it would probably be better for yours.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top