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#731168 - 11/25/04 07:22 AM used cooking oil in diesel engine?
medic Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 1734
Loc: Bradford, Commonwealth of Penn...
While eating Thanksgiving dinner with my parents today, my dad told me he is getting his '97 Passat TDI converted to run on used cooking oil. This consists of a 15 gallon tank in the trunk and some hoses running from the coolant system into the tank to warm the cooking oil. He said he will have to run the first 5 miles on diesel and then when the cooking oil is warmed up he can switch over.

He told me that there are limited cooking oils that can be used and canola oil is prefered. He has already set up a deal with a local restaurant and a grocery store so he can pick up their used cooking oil. All he has to do is filter it with a regular water filter that you find under a kitchen sink. One filter lasts for 50 gallons. He figures, with the current price of diesel, that this system will pay for itself in 3 months and after that it's money in his pocket.

He has also been told that the cooking oil will clean his injectors and other fuel related parts of his engine.

[ November 25, 2004, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: medic ]

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#731169 - 11/25/04 07:26 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
55Test Offline


Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1837
Loc: New Brunswick
Tell me, what additive or detergent is present in cooking oil that will clean injectors or any related parts? I am 99.9 percent sure there are ZERO additives of any kind in cooking oil, after all it is meant for cooking and cooking only. I wouldn't believe what your father says.

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#731170 - 11/25/04 07:38 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
Kestas Offline



Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 10870
Loc: The Motor City
I believe him. Among the diesel users that burn Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO), it is common to experience a cleaning effect with WVO.

Unless it as edited out, Medic's father didn't say the cleaning was due to additives in the cooking oil.

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#731171 - 11/25/04 07:41 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
medic Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 1734
Loc: Bradford, Commonwealth of Penn...
quote:
Originally posted by 55:
Tell me, what additive or detergent is present in cooking oil that will clean injectors or any related parts? I am 99.9 percent sure there are ZERO additives of any kind in cooking oil, after all it is meant for cooking and cooking only. I wouldn't believe what your father says.

Honestly, I don't know. Common sense tells me that there are no additives in cooking oil. But I also know that cooking oil can naturally dissolve many petroleum based adhesives without the help from any detergents. [I dont know]

As far as what he says, he was told this and just passed on the info because I was very interested. Most people would just think he's nuts. I am one of the few people he can discuss this kind of thing with.

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#731172 - 11/25/04 09:35 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
robnitro Offline


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 140
Loc: New York City, NY
Esters have natural cleaning ability because they are highly polar. Esters are usually made of natural things, which includes vegetable oils I believe.

This effect of cleaning is also seen with biodiesel. The thing with veggie oil is that it has to be as thin as normal diesel, which explains why he has to heat it up first. Otherwise the injectors will not spray it well. Also, used oil has more acid buildup.

Check out http://www.tdiclub.com for some info on it ifyou want!

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#731173 - 11/25/04 10:41 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
jthorner Offline


Registered: 07/11/03
Posts: 1130
Loc: California
It can be done, but there are a lot of issues with respect to the actual oils used, etc.

One of several web resources is at:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

Most sources recommend running the refined biodiesel fuel rather than straight vegetable oil.

John

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#731174 - 11/26/04 08:24 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
medic Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 1734
Loc: Bradford, Commonwealth of Penn...
Hmmm, I thought this was something new. I always knew that, in theory, diesels would run on any combustable fluid but I didn't realize it was this common.

I forgot about the fact that group V oils are partially made from vegetable oils.

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#731175 - 11/27/04 02:48 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27113
Loc: a prison island
Rudolf ran his original engine on peanut oil.

It can be done with varying degrees of success depending on the oil, and how it's introduced to the engine.Some people simply blend the vegetable oil with dino, others have additional pumps and coolant pwoered heaters to introduce straight waste oil to the injector pump.

The U.K. have an issue, as you can often buy vegetable oil at the supermarket cheaper than the diesel at the pumps. Vege oil isn't taxed as highly, so the Govt misses out on the exise.

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#731176 - 11/28/04 08:26 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
tom slick Offline


Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 8611
Loc: Central Coast, Calif.
check out
veggie power
greasecar, this site specifically deals with cooking oil power
globalstewards
department of energy
not all of these are "grease power" sites but the have links to "grease power" along with good info on biodiesel.

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#731177 - 11/28/04 06:52 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
MAJA Offline


Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 542
Loc: South Central Texas
quote:
Rudolf ran his original engine on peanut oil.

This may be true, but his first design diesel engine called for "coal dust" as the fuel source.

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#731178 - 12/01/04 05:14 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
JohnnyO Offline


Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Car & Driver magazine did an article on these conversions a few months ago.

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#731179 - 12/09/04 01:04 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
rkpatt Offline


Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 133
Loc: SE
I am in the middle of making my homebre set-up my 1994 diesel IDI non-turbo on WVO . I can tell you that it is the critical points of filtering and fuel heating are not as simple as they first seem .

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#731180 - 01/16/05 10:31 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
medic Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 1734
Loc: Bradford, Commonwealth of Penn...
Well, its done. My dad had his car converted over the weekend. He drove 175 miles home in 20 degree weather on about 3 gallons of WVO. He said that he didn't notice any difference in power from diesel fuel. The car ran as good as it ever has.

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#731181 - 01/19/05 02:32 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27113
Loc: a prison island
medic, good work.

If I ever seel the 4Ruuner, I intend to get a second hand Japanese diesel ute, and do similar (although probably only run a blend with no mods for a while).

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#731182 - 02/14/05 07:24 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
medic Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 1734
Loc: Bradford, Commonwealth of Penn...
I just wanted to update everybody. So far, my dad has managed to rack up about 4,000 trouble free miles on his WVO system. As of yet, he hasn't had to put any diesel in the stock fuel tank. He says it's still about 3/4 full.

His only complaint is that he is keeping the WVO in the garage at about 50F. At this temp, it is too thick to run through the electric pump that he bought. So filtering it and getting it into the vehicle is a major job. He's trying to find a cheap and safe way to heat the 55 gallon drum that he is storing it in. It is actually a pretty elaborate setup. I'll take a pick next time I visit my parents.

I often wonder how my mom feels about all of this. I know she is usually pretty understanding, but I think that may have changed after his Quadractor endeavor [Roll Eyes]

 -

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#731183 - 03/21/05 04:46 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
PatrickW Offline


Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 7
Loc: MN
quote:
Originally posted by medic:
Most people would just think he's nuts. I am one of the few people he can discuss this kind of thing with.

Such is the case with many of the leading thinkers throughout human history.

He sounds like a very interesting man. Update us after a while and let us know how the WVO adventure is going...

- Patrick

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#731184 - 04/15/05 11:32 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine?
medic Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 1734
Loc: Bradford, Commonwealth of Penn...
Okay, I got an email about a week ago from my dad. He helped my cousin move from Albany. NY to Jamestown, NY. I will quote his email. BTW, LV stands for Little Valley, NY, not LasVegas.

quote:
Went from LV to Albany NY, picked up a enclosed U-Haul trailer, loaded it with Lindsay's stuff and hauled it back to Jamestown. Trailer was full, trunk was full and back seat was full. High gear, cruse control set at 70 mph, all the way back with the loaded trailer. Dropped down to 60 on one hill. Switched off the veggie at Salamanca exit with a total of 700 miles on about 17 gallons wvo. About 41 mpg. If I was not pulling the trailer, bet I would have been up about 48 to 50 mpg. Have enough diesel left in the diesel tank to go back to Albany and return, not pulling a trailer.

The VW pulled the hills like there was nothing behind it.


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#1401083 - 03/12/09 05:13 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: medic]
caprice_2nv Offline


Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 485
Loc: Ontario Canada
I think most people are just scared to do this kind of thing. I haven't done any real research but have seen enough on tv shows and through a friend who had done his homework to consider doing it myself. My only problem is I live in an appt and don't have room to store the veggie oil. I drive enough miles that it would be worth it to me to put some money into getting this going.

I think my vehicle of choice would be a mid 80's Olds Delta 88 diesel 350, since I have so many parts that fit those cars. Maybe I could even convert my gas 307 Delta 88 that I already have over to the diesel engine. The later diesels didn't have the head bolt problems that the earlier ones did, and besides that issue most problems were due to customer error.
_________________________
84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds - RP 10w30 HPS
83 Caprice - 305 - M1 0w30 AFE + Rislone ZDDP additive

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#1403499 - 03/14/09 11:58 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: caprice_2nv]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27113
Loc: a prison island
If you've got a bosch inline pump, you are laughing.

The (Lucas Style) IP in my Nissan is $4,800 if I mess it up and ruin the thrust bearings.
_________________________
2003 Nissan ZD30 TD, 4L Penrite R 5W30, 3L M1 5W50, Nulon 5W20
1997 Statesman Caprice, L67, Castrol Magnatec 5W30.
Briggs Quantum, Chief SAE30.



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#1425186 - 04/04/09 08:29 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: Shannow]
wileyE Offline


Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 1967
Loc: Kitsap, WA
Even the switch to 20% bio diesel where I work and is clogging filters before service intervals are due. Can't imagine trying to deal with pure veggie oil, other than how hard it is to clean off a fry pan when it gells?

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#1426168 - 04/06/09 04:42 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: wileyE]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27113
Loc: a prison island
wileyE,
I think that the crux of your issue is...switch to 20%.

I think that the esters might be cleaning out tanks and oxidised rubber fuel lines etc. after running dino.

Either that, or your bio has soaps/glycerine in it.

Using WVO is a very customised approach to running a vehicle, you need to be on top of your game completely.
_________________________
2003 Nissan ZD30 TD, 4L Penrite R 5W30, 3L M1 5W50, Nulon 5W20
1997 Statesman Caprice, L67, Castrol Magnatec 5W30.
Briggs Quantum, Chief SAE30.



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#1801113 - 03/02/10 06:17 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: Shannow]
Gearstix Offline


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 37
Loc: Canada
I have an idea on how to keep your tank of WVO warm...
Where I live, not sure about you guys in the warmer parts of Canada/USA, in the winter it dips down to -41*C/-41*F regularly, and it does get colder than that. We have block heaters that you plug into the wall.

Maybe you could use a block heater or a magnetic oil pan heater if the tank is metal.

I would be interested in doing this in my truck if I do a diesel swap.

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#1851467 - 04/09/10 08:22 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: wileyE]
badnews Offline


Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Ohio
During Katrina I knew a guy that would mix (clean) Veg Oil in with his diesel fuel to strech it due to limited supply

He suffered no ill affects with his Ford engine

This was a emergency but he continued the experiment to see what would happen and he did not incur big problems


Edited by badnews (04/09/10 08:23 PM)
_________________________
The thin oil is better thoughts often expressed here are not doing your engine any favors

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#1860911 - 04/17/10 11:59 AM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: badnews]
Kestas Offline



Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 10870
Loc: The Motor City
I've read stories where in Europe, the price of diesel fuel was sometimes higher than cooking oil. The savvy owner would buy his fuel from the supermarket.

WVO has become so popular, that places like San Francisco now have less WVO that there are people who want it. I believe the city has contracts with many restaurants to provide WVO for their city vehicles.

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#1861016 - 04/17/10 01:56 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: wileyE]
labman Offline


Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 8711
Loc: Nothern USA
You could look at electric water heating elements for heating the drum of grease. I would select a low wattage 240 one and run 120V. It may screw right in the bung, or perhaps with a bushing.

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#3422783 - 07/12/14 04:17 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: medic]
sixtwoturbo Offline


Registered: 01/28/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Abbotsford, BC
For heating his drum, get one of those heating wraps, I use one in the winter for "drying" out my WMO and they work great.

Grease car should sell them and of course, Ebay. They average $120.
_________________________
1984 G20 Get A Way van, 6.2 diesel with a remote mounted turbo-HX35 with a billet 60mm HX40 comp wheel, 20 psi, running waste fuels and jet fuel.

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#3503048 - 10/05/14 05:55 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: medic]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1145
Loc: Alaska
I would recommend relatively frequent lube oil changes, since WVO that gets into the lube oil reacts to form solid "goo" that will eventually cause bearing failure if not noticed.
At least keep a very close eye on viscosity. Use one of the cheaper lube oils like dino Delvac 1300 15W40 or Supertech 15W40.

Charlie


Edited by m37charlie (10/05/14 05:57 PM)
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#3503066 - 10/05/14 06:14 PM Re: used cooking oil in diesel engine? [Re: medic]
2004tdigls Offline


Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 262
Loc: maple ridge, bc
Originally Posted By: medic
While eating Thanksgiving dinner with my parents today, my dad told me he is getting his '97 Passat TDI converted to run on used cooking oil. This consists of a 15 gallon tank in the trunk and some hoses running from the coolant system into the tank to warm the cooking oil. He said he will have to run the first 5 miles on diesel and then when the cooking oil is warmed up he can switch over.

He told me that there are limited cooking oils that can be used and canola oil is prefered. He has already set up a deal with a local restaurant and a grocery store so he can pick up their used cooking oil. All he has to do is filter it with a regular water filter that you find under a kitchen sink. One filter lasts for 50 gallons. He figures, with the current price of diesel, that this system will pay for itself in 3 months and after that it's money in his pocket.

He has also been told that the cooking oil will clean his injectors and other fuel related parts of his engine.

<small>[ November 25, 2004, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: medic ]</small>


its suicide for your tdi,

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=215038&highlight=wvo

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=269973

just search the threads, lots of dead cars there

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