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#728826 - 05/12/06 08:56 AM Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
miraCRD Offline


Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 166
Loc: Jenkintown, PA
I have an '05 Jeep Liberty with the diesel that I have been quite happy with for the past year. I'm about to turn 9K miles. The REQUIRED oil as per the owner's manual is M1 0W-40 (with M1 5W-40 being the only acceptable substitution). I am pretty sure the OCI is 12K miles.

See this link for the manual specifics.

I know that the quality of this oil is unquestionable, but it's suitability to this application just does not strike me as "ideal". The oil on the dipstick looks absolutely carbon black, and will even stain your hand if you get any on your skin to the point that it is difficult to remove.

I know that diesels run "dirty" and that how the oil looks is not an indication of a) it's suitablity to an application, and b) it's need to be changed. This oil is also API rated for diesels and meets the stringent Mercedes Benz (diesel?) spec. 228.?

Probably partly because I use the vehicle hard with some towing in the 3K to 4K range (it's rated for 5K), lots of short trips, and lots of hauling, I can't help but think I'd be better off with shorter OCIs and a diesel specific oil like DELO 400 15W/40. While the M1 seems to be primarilly a gasoline engine oil that also happens to be rated for diesels, the diesel oils are primarilly formulated FOR diesels that also are rated for gasoline engines. I would think that the diesel specific oild would better be able to deal with the soot and other by products of diesel combustion.

I personally think that Daimler-Chrysler engineered the CRD with every fuel mileage increasing trick in the book because that was to be a major selling point for the vehicle....and one of the reasons I bought it. Specifying this oil in this grade smacks of this motivation. Another example is their tire and wheel choice for the CRD's....they ONLY come with the lighter alloy wheels and some very unimpressive skinny (low rolling resistance) Goodyears that were so bad in the wet when the turbo kicked in, that I replaced them at 800 miles.

Anyway, I did an oil/filter change at 5000 miles and stuck with the "required" M1. I'd love to at least be able to try something different but fear messing with the warranty.

Any thoughts?

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#728827 - 05/13/06 12:32 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
marco246 Offline


Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Hawaii
Because of your warranty, stick with the 0W-40 until the new M1 5W-40 Turbodiesel comes onto the market, then try that out. The 5W-40 should have a CI-4 or better diesel rating and ought to handle soot better, but you can expect it to turn black quickly, too.

Cheers, Mark

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#728828 - 05/13/06 02:49 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
tdi-rick Offline


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 1821
Loc: the antipodes
most nearly all euro diesels (and the Jeep one, IIRC is made by VM in Italy) generally specify PCMO's with a minimum API CF/ACEA B1 diesel rating.

eg most Land Rover TD5 (common rail turbo diesel) engines in this country run on either M1 0W-40 or Castrol Edge (Formula R/SLX) 5W-30, and I've never heard of it causing any problems, and some of these engines have racked up well in excess of 200,000km by now.

BTW, It isn't advisable to use a 15W-40 with a common rail engine as injector operation can be adversely affected in cold ambients (below around 0*C )

Personally, I'd use Delvac 1 [Big Grin]

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#728829 - 05/13/06 03:19 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26882
Loc: a prison island
miraCRD,
that's similar to my Nissan.

I bought a diesel fully anticipating D-1 forever, and ended up having to use PCMO during the warranty period.

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#728830 - 05/13/06 08:47 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
Tornado Red Offline


Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 1735
Loc: Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
quote:
Originally posted by miraCRD:
I have an '05 Jeep Liberty with the diesel that I have been quite happy with for the past year. I'm about to turn 9K miles. The REQUIRED oil as per the owner's manual is M1 0W-40 (with M1 5W-40 being the only acceptable substitution)..... the M1 seems to be primarilly a gasoline engine oil that also happens to be rated for diesels, the diesel oils are primarilly formulated FOR diesels that also are rated for gasoline engines. I would think that the diesel specific oild would better be able to deal with the soot and other by products of diesel combustion....

If Mobil 5w40 is an acceptable substitute, then that's what I'd recommend.... whether Delvac 1 synthetic 5w40 or Mobil 1 5w40.

I agree that the Mobil 1 0w40 is primarily a gasoline engine oil. And usually not the best choice for that application, either.

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#728831 - 05/13/06 09:58 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26882
Loc: a prison island
It's marketted in Europe as Mobil 1 "Turbodiesel" 0W-40. Same Pour point, viscosity, flash point, and sulfated ash.

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#728832 - 05/13/06 12:47 PM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
unDummy Offline


Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 8756
Loc: RI
Where does it say M1 5w40 is the only substitute?

From the last 2006 CRD owners manual that I read, the 0w40 is preferred. But, ANY 5w40 can be used if any 0w40 isn't available. I don't remember the owners manual mentioning brands.

The last CRD that I changed the oil on got 5w40 Rotella-T synthetic. Its a true diesel SL/CI4+ oil.

Concerning color, the dipstick will turn ink black with either oil very quickly after an oil change. Blame that on 'joke' OEM filtration. Install bypass filtration if 'oil look' is visually important to you.

You're brave to tow with it. CRD's snack on transmissions.

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#728833 - 05/14/06 06:25 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
miraCRD Offline


Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 166
Loc: Jenkintown, PA
Thanks for all the feedback! Sorry...wrong link above to the manual specifics...here it is from a prior post:

quote:
Originally posted by Ram_in_Texas:
Wavinwayne,

Looking at my CRD manual it syas:

"the manufcaturer recommends using synthetic engine oils that are API certified (SL/CF), and meet the requirements of DaimlerChrysler Material Standard MS-10725.

Engine Oil Viscosity (2.8L Diesel Engines)
Use SAE 0W-40 Mobil 1 Synthetic Engine Oil that meets API categories CF or better and the requirements of DaimlerChrysler Material Standard MS-10725. If you cannot find SAE 0W-40, then SAE 5W-40 Mobil 1 Synthetic Engine Oil is acceptable. Any engine oil that does not meet the manufacturer's requirements should not be used."

Hope it helps

Marco 246...I like that suggestion. I think the new M1 Turbo Diesel Truck may be the answer....it IS M1, it's in an "acceptable" viscosity, and it's formulated more for diesels specifically. I will likely go to this. Have not been able to find it available locally yet though.

unDummy...so far so good with towing, but the transmission on these does seem like the weak link, even though I've heard that it is the same 5 speed auto tranny used on the Chrysler V-8's. Don't know if that is true. If it is you'd think it could deal with the diesel's torque.

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#728834 - 05/26/06 11:38 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
Reg# 43897 Offline


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 701
Loc: Fredericton
UnDummy's read on the oil spec's listed in the 2006 O.M. is bang-on. That's exactly what it says. D1 will be my choice as I have a healthy supply that I got at a Walmart on clearance. Current bike oil of choice as well. I have RTS as well and that would be a great idea when weighed against cost.

John.

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#728835 - 05/27/06 11:57 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
Strjock81 Offline


Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Illinois
quote:

BTW, It isn't advisable to use a 15W-40 with a common rail engine as injector operation can be adversely affected in cold ambients (below around 0*C ) [/QB]

Oddly enough then, my Dodge w/ CR Cummins ran wonderfully in late fall on Delo 15w-40 in subfreezing temps before I got switched to Schaeffer's 5w-40?

Also as an owner of a TDI, I journey to the tdiclub often, and I have never seen so many people (that are well respected on the board no less) that you would swear wouldn't believe a TDI could even start and run on a 15w-40 dino oil, let alone live a long life on it.

I don't care how hard these people think a little bitty TDI engines (PD engines aside) are on oil, but I can assure you a class 8 truck toting 80,000 lbs. around all day beats the oil up worse than a TDI, and they run 15w-40 oftentimes to near a million miles before overhauls.

What really cracks me up is that everyone on tdiclub thinks since they have a turbo in their car that it can't use dino oil because that turbo is so hard on the oil that it will coke up and die if something besides the finest syn oil on the market is used. I have diesel tractors made in the early 70's with turbos on them that see high sustained EGTs and have thousands upon thousands of hours on them without OHs and I promise that the oil those tractors used the first 20-25 years of their lives in hard use doesn't even remotely compare to the overall strength and durability of the oils we use in them today. And they have lived through it marvelously.

People, TDI's and CRD's can run on 15w-40, on fairly long intervals, and be none the worse for it. Except for some silly things like the PD VWs, they aren't any harder on oil than any other diesel out there. Don't believe the hype that you have to use $20+ per gallon oil in them to get them to last 50K miles. Of course, while you are under warranty, it is best to abide by their recommendations.

My point is that they are doing this more on fuel economy considerations and erring on the safe side for "uneducated consumer OCI practices" than longevity or wear concerns. Of course during extreme cold, one would be wise to look into a 5w-40 type oil just out of common sense.

I run D1 or Schaeffer's 9000 in our 01 Jetta, and I don't want it to sound like I am saying synthetic is not the way to go. The car holds a tick over a gallon of oil, and I change it at 10K intervals, so it is worth it to me in peace of mind, and it doesn't cost me but about 15 bucks more per oil change.

Again, I just wanted to bring up the fact that way too many people out there are absolutely convinced these little diesels just won't hardly work, run or last long if you don't use D1, 505.01, etc. that has been pounded into us "by people that know" when in fact they are still just little turbocharged diesels, and like the big ones, can live happy, long lives on standard, high end 15w-40 HDEOs when common sense is used regarding ambient temps.

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#728836 - 05/28/06 12:49 PM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
mkosem Offline


Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 782
Loc: OH, US
There ARE known issues with the TDI engine running non-synth oils. The oil has a bad habit of getting coked onto the pistons, causing increased oil consumption. Only synthetic oils are recommended. Why be cheap? Spend the extra few dollars and have peace of mind using an oil you can bet is better than a dino 15w-40. Big rigs and CRDs are two completely different beasts. The size difference of the internals alone should clue you in on that.

--Matt

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#728837 - 05/29/06 10:21 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
Strjock81 Offline


Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Illinois
My Dodge is a "CRD" and specs dino 15w-40. The Duramax is a "CRD."

John Deere has engines now that are "CRDs" and spec 15w-40 dino engine oil. More and more OTR big rigs will be CRDs before too long as well.

The Liberty CRD specs 0w-40 not for engine life, but for fuel economy and fuel economy alone. If they wanted maximum engine life, it would spec 5w-40 synthetic, diesel specific oil. If I had one I would run D1 or Schaeffer 9000 5w-40 in it. But I also would not worry that it would coke up and die in a matter of days if I used "crappy dino oil in it and the turbo will take a dirt nap 'cuz turbos can't use dino oil."

TDIs run significantly higher EGTs than OTR diesel engines, thus it is wise to run a group IV synthetic to be on the safe side and maximize component life. We do in ours, and it makes me sleep easier at night. HOWEVER, I am aware of at least one guy locally that has lots of miles on 2 TDIs, on a 99 and one a 2001 that only use synth in the wintertime, so I know for a fact that while maybe not ideal, the dino oil can perform in a TDI engine with success for over 100,000 miles. (Of dino in the engine, not total miles) Some may claim the syn is cleaning up all the mess left over from the dino coke-job, and maybe they are right, but it doesn't lead to the catastrophic turbo and ring failures some on tdiclub.com would have you believe.

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#728838 - 05/31/06 10:02 PM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
spiderbypass Offline


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 272
Loc: Stewartstown PA
I think Amsoil series 3000 5w30, would offer excellent protection subsequent to their strong additive formulation, and you would receive the benefits of running a lower viscosity oil with regards to fuel economy.

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#728839 - 06/01/06 10:02 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
TooSlick Offline


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 5785
Loc: Dixie
The Amsoil 5w-40 European formula meets the latest MB 229.51 and ACEA C3-04 specs called for in this application.

I believe they want you using a lower ash formulation in this motor, hence they recommend the M1, 0w-40 and not Delvac 1.

TS

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#728840 - 06/01/06 10:37 AM Re: Jeep Liberty CRD Required Oil - Opinion?
Strjock81 Offline


Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Illinois
Oh yeah, they are also motivated to keep those cats clean!

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