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#71544 - 03/02/04 08:40 AM Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
zoomzoom Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 799
Loc: Washington, DC
Does anyone knows what they use in these?

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#71545 - 03/02/04 08:56 AM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
Ferrari Offline


Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 208
Loc: Mississauga, ON
Good question, I'd like to know that too. I'd assume it's 100% Ester, straight weight without any viscosity improvers, and custom made for each engine manufacturer.

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#71546 - 03/01/04 09:11 PM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
G-MAN Offline


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 8869
Loc: SC
Shell and Ferrari both claim that Helix Ultra 10w60 is used in all Ferrari race engines. Given that this oil is only available at select Ferrari dealers, comes standard in the Enzo, and retails for $60.00 a quart, I'd say this probably is the custom blended race oil that Shell developed for Ferrari.

Mobil has claimed that Mobil 1 15w50 is used by some race teams, most notably Penske at Indy, so it is possible that this grade of OTC Mobil 1 may be used by Formula 1 teams as well.

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#71547 - 03/01/04 11:10 PM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
zoomzoom Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 799
Loc: Washington, DC
I know the Mobil1 is used in Mclaren Mercedes engines, Castrol in Villiams BMW and ELF in Renault. But I'm curious what viscosities we talk about here, when every horsepower is important and reliability is critical at the same time...

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#71548 - 03/02/04 02:44 AM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
F1 are here in Oz (Melbourne) right now. Maybe I should go and ask them but I wouldn't bet on getting an answer!

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#71549 - 03/02/04 02:50 AM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
Road Rage Offline


Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 107
Loc: Richmond, Va
quote:
Originally posted by zoomzoom:
I know the Mobil1 is used in Mclaren Mercedes engines, Castrol in Villiams BMW and ELF in Renault. But I'm curious what viscosities we talk about here, when every horsepower is important and reliability is critical at the same time...

True, but I find it unlikely that it is the stuff that is found on the shelves of Pep Boys. It is far more likely specially blended, and even could be closer to the "R" formulation, which has higher levels of ZDP and contains an estimated 15% or so ester.

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#71550 - 03/02/04 05:59 AM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
Primus Offline


Registered: 07/29/03
Posts: 886
Loc: Kiev, Ukraine
According to Rhspecr: "we use different blends of oil for the mercedes motor on the mclaren depending on qualifying and race and also even the predicted temperature of the race", but no info on the exact weight. Some more info:

http://board.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=67e69b5aa3dcb01a890533a44f537640&threadid=67129268

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#71551 - 03/02/04 07:17 AM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
Last_Z Offline


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 2790
Loc: San Antonio, TX
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:
Shell and Ferrari both claim that Helix Ultra 10w60 is used in all Ferrari race engines. Given that this oil is only available at select Ferrari dealers, comes standard in the Enzo, and retails for $60.00 a quart, I'd say this probably is the custom blended race oil that Shell developed for Ferrari.

Mobil has claimed that Mobil 1 15w50 is used by some race teams, most notably Penske at Indy, so it is possible that this grade of OTC Mobil 1 may be used by Formula 1 teams as well.

G-Man,
I don't think I believe Mobil's claim. The price for the Shell stuff "suggests" the oil "might" actually be used in race engines. M1R seems to have (from what we can "see") a better additive package than the 15W-50, sugesting the latter, although a very good oil, isn't a race bread oil.
JMO

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#71552 - 03/02/04 04:47 PM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
Primus Offline


Registered: 07/29/03
Posts: 886
Loc: Kiev, Ukraine
The price does not always define the real value of a product and depends more on given competitor environement and how a manufacturer/seller wants to position its product on this or that market.

In Europe Shell Helix Ultra 10W-60 is sold from $ 11/l to EUR 18/l. This is like with Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30 prices: $ 9,50-12/l in Eastern Europe, EUR 11-18/l in Westen Europe and below $ 7/l in North America.

I've checked with Ferrari dealers in Switzerland and Germany: Shell does not supply some special custom blend of 10W-60 or 0W-40 to Ferrari dealers, just off the shelves Helix Ultra.

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#71553 - 03/02/04 07:13 PM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
zoomzoom Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 799
Loc: Washington, DC
Lucky you(sprintman)!!
Are you going to the race?
F1 is something I would recomend everyone to see...there is nothing like it..those cars are amazing...I went to US GP 2 years ago and I'm planing to go to GP of Canada this year...

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#71554 - 03/02/04 07:23 PM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
G-MAN Offline


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 8869
Loc: SC
quote:
Originally posted by Primus:
In Europe Shell Helix Ultra 10W-60 is sold from $ 11/l to EUR 18/l.

I've checked with Ferrari dealers in Switzerland and Germany: Shell does not supply some special custom blend of 10W-60 or 0W-40 to Ferrari dealers, just off the shelves Helix Ultra.

This doesn't mean that the Helix Ultra 10w60 that is sold in Europe wasn't originally blended specifically for Ferrari and is the same oil used in the racing engines. From what I've read, that in fact is the case. This oil was developed for Ferrari and later branded and bottled as "Helix Ultra Racing 10w60" and sold at retail.

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#71555 - 03/02/04 10:39 PM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
Primus Offline


Registered: 07/29/03
Posts: 886
Loc: Kiev, Ukraine
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:
[QUOTE]This doesn't mean that the Helix Ultra 10w60 that is sold in Europe wasn't originally blended specifically for Ferrari and is the same oil used in the racing engines. From what I've read, that in fact is the case. This oil was developed for Ferrari and later branded and bottled as "Helix Ultra Racing 10w60" and sold at retail.

Here your are right: it was designed having in mind firstly Ferrari need. As for the second possible aim I think Shell wanted to offer an alternative product to a very popular Castrol 10W-60. But as for quoted price, most probably this price in N.A. is justified by a cost of small DHL/UPS shipments from Europe. At the same time what is extra $ 300 for a Ferrari owner ?

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#71556 - 03/02/04 10:45 PM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
Primus Offline


Registered: 07/29/03
Posts: 886
Loc: Kiev, Ukraine
If somebody is interested in PDS or MSDS of Shell products, they may be find here:

http://www.shell-tic.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.main

Don't think German lanquage will be an obstacle to understand figures.

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#71557 - 03/02/04 11:25 PM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
nicrfe1370 Offline


Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 471
Loc: the state that looks like an u...
This doesn't give numbers, but it's probably as close as you'll ever get in the clandestine world of F1 technology.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000296

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#71558 - 03/03/04 01:53 AM Re: Oil viscosity in Formula 1 Engines?
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 6849
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
The Fomula 1 Hona team evaluated oils several years ago and at that time they chose Mobil 1 5w30. Ed Hayes

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