Michelin Symmetry vs Kumho HP4 716 & Yoko Avid Touring

[Floramar]

It's about time to get new tires for my 2000 Camry, currently has Symmetry on it. Do not have much complain abt it but not impressed with it either, esp. at that price.

I did some research at Tirerack and my top choice is Kumho 716 followed by Yoko Avid Touring. I understand that the ratings at Tirerack for each tire is not an apple-to-apple comparison to another tire of different brand esp. of diff. price range. The rating is affected very much by a person's expectation for that tire vs its price vs what he/she read abt that tire.

I would appreciate your comments if you have been a user of any 2 of the above mentioned 3 tires. Thanks in advance.

 

[N2OIL]

The Avid Touring. Got a place to price match off the Tireracks price plus shipping. So the tires were $48 a piece. The deal was great & tires are excellent. Also Kumho is not a bad deal but the Yoko tires seem to be an excellent value. My 2 cents.

 

[Floramar]

Thanks N2OIL. I forgot to mention that ride comfort and noise is more important to me now that I'm getting older

.

 

[Storm897]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Floramar:
It's about time to get new tires for my 2000 Camry, currently has Symmetry on it. Do not have much complain abt it but not impressed with it either, esp. at that price.

I did some research at Tirerack and my top choice is Kumho 716 followed by Yoko Avid Touring. I understand that the ratings at Tirerack for each tire is not an apple-to-apple comparison to another tire of different brand esp. of diff. price range. The rating is affected very much by a person's expectation for that tire vs its price vs what he/she read abt that tire.

I would appreciate your comments if you have been a user of any 2 of the above mentioned 3 tires. Thanks in advance.

---

I can only speak for the Kumho HP4 716s. I have them on my civic and they are great. Looking at the reviews from Tirerack as well as a tire comparison, shows the decision is really between the Kumho and Yokohama.

 

[outrun]

I work as a part time sales rep for Michelin.

Bearing that in mind, is price your ONLY concern with this tire purchase?

Comparing econo Kumho's to OEM Michelin's is not a fair comparison. To different markets/grades altogether. Skip considering the Symetry, move on the Agility/Harmony or Hydroedge.

Please seriously look into these lines over the Kumho, few extra $ but worth its weight in gold.
Yes, I included other Rubber Manufactures

A. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company

1. Assurance Triple Tread: T, H rated
2. Assurance Comfort Tread: T,H rated
3. Weatherhandler LS (Sears) ~ Viva Touring(Walmart) ~ Regatta 2 (GY Retailers) : T rated
4. Sumitomo HTR T4: T rated

B. Michelin

1. Agility Touring(Sears) ~ Harmony: (MN retailers) S rated
2. Hydroedge: T rated

C. Bridgestone (BS)

1. Weatherforce Touring

....I am not hot on BS though, except for thier Blizzak WS50 Winter Tires & Revo Truck lines.

 

[outrun]

Forget to mention;

Michelin is offering a 50$ rebate Visa quick check card when you purchase 4 tires through 28MAY2005.

Goodyear is offering 25$ rebate for all tires, and 50$ for the Assurance line through 29MAY2005; again with the qty 4 purchase.

This may lower your out of pocket cost putting you into to BETTER options.

 

[Floramar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by outrun:
I work as a part time sales rep for Michelin.

Bearing that in mind, is price your ONLY concern with this tire purchase?

Comparing econo Kumho's to OEM Michelin's is not a fair comparison. To different markets/grades altogether. Skip considering the Symetry, move on the Agility/Harmony or Hydroedge.

Please seriously look into these lines over the Kumho, few extra $ but worth its weight in gold.
Yes, I included other Rubber Manufactures

A. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company

1. Assurance Triple Tread: T, H rated
2. Assurance Comfort Tread: T,H rated
3. Weatherhandler LS (Sears) ~ Viva Touring(Walmart) ~ Regatta 2 (GY Retailers) : T rated
4. Sumitomo HTR T4: T rated

B. Michelin

1. Agility Touring(Sears) ~ Harmony: (MN retailers) S rated
2. Hydroedge: T rated

C. Bridgestone (BS)

1. Weatherforce Touring

....I am not hot on BS though, except for thier Blizzak WS50 Winter Tires & Revo Truck lines.

---

I hope to get a decent tire at $100 or below for my sedan. I'm not here looking for the cheapest one but hopefully the one with the best value. Thanks for the suggestions some of which I had considered before like the harmony, tripletred and comfortred. Are you saying Harmony and Agility are the same tire with diff name? Hydroedge is a little over my budget.

I started to consider Kumho 716 and Avid Touring after the many good comments on them even over Symetry at Tirerack. If I can pay less and yet get better ones over Symetry, why not? If a much cheaper tire performed much better than a more expensive one, I would consider that as a good value.

The more comments I hear from those who had been users of these tires or had some knowledge about them the better decision I will make.

 

[T-Keith]

It's funny because all of Michelin's tires seem to fall around that $100 mark or higher. There are good tires available for cheaper, but Michelins all seem to be of very high quality. I believe it's pretty much discontinued though.

Haven't heard much about the Hydroedge or HArmony tires.

 

[edvanp]

I had the Yoko Avid touring on a Pontiac Montana and liked the tires a lot. I thought they were a good tire, especially for the price.

 

[Floramar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bretfraz:
IMO, the Symmetry is one of the smoothest and quietest tires on the market. There is a good reason it is OEM on the Lincoln Town Car and Mecury Gr. Marquis.

I'm sure the newer Michelin's and Goodyear's would all be fine choices. It's a hard decision.

For the price I'm sure the Kumho is a decent tire but like most value priced tires, they get noisy as they wear. I'd read comments about the HP716 carefully before kicking down the $$.

My concern about Yokohama is quality control. You either get a good set or you don't. A friend recently ordered a new set of Yoko's from Tire Rack and they balanced up nicely and are working great. I know another guy who went thru 12 Yoko's to find 4 good ones. I know a Yoko dealer who is dropping the line due to poor QC and customer complaints. IMO Yoko is a double edged sword. If you want Yoko, I'd strongly suggest you buy locally, just in case.

My 2 cents....

---

I like the idea of getting them locally just in case I run into problem. Thanks for the info on Yoko QC.

As far as I know, Symmetry is not one of the smoothest and quietest. It's OE for Honda Odessy and noise is the common complain. I find it a little noisy too.

 

[bretfraz]

IMO, the Symmetry is one of the smoothest and quietest tires on the market. There is a good reason it is OEM on the Lincoln Town Car and Mecury Gr. Marquis.

I'm sure the newer Michelin's and Goodyear's would all be fine choices. It's a hard decision.

For the price I'm sure the Kumho is a decent tire but like most value priced tires, they get noisy as they wear. I'd read comments about the HP716 carefully before kicking down the $$.

My concern about Yokohama is quality control. You either get a good set or you don't. A friend recently ordered a new set of Yoko's from Tire Rack and they balanced up nicely and are working great. I know another guy who went thru 12 Yoko's to find 4 good ones. I know a Yoko dealer who is dropping the line due to poor QC and customer complaints. IMO Yoko is a double edged sword. If you want Yoko, I'd strongly suggest you buy locally, just in case.

My 2 cents....

 

[slugsgomoo]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Floramar:

quote:

---

Originally posted by bretfraz:
IMO, the Symmetry is one of the smoothest and quietest tires on the market. There is a good reason it is OEM on the Lincoln Town Car and Mecury Gr. Marquis.

I'm sure the newer Michelin's and Goodyear's would all be fine choices. It's a hard decision.

For the price I'm sure the Kumho is a decent tire but like most value priced tires, they get noisy as they wear. I'd read comments about the HP716 carefully before kicking down the $$.

My concern about Yokohama is quality control. You either get a good set or you don't. A friend recently ordered a new set of Yoko's from Tire Rack and they balanced up nicely and are working great. I know another guy who went thru 12 Yoko's to find 4 good ones. I know a Yoko dealer who is dropping the line due to poor QC and customer complaints. IMO Yoko is a double edged sword. If you want Yoko, I'd strongly suggest you buy locally, just in case.

My 2 cents....

---

I like the idea of getting them locally just in case I run into problem. Thanks for the info on Yoko QC.

As far as I know, Symmetry is not one of the smoothest and quietest. It's OE for Honda Odessy and noise is the common complain. I find it a little noisy too.

---

I have the Avid T4's on a 1986 528e bmw, and the tires are pretty smooth and quiet. They are also decently sticky, and hold the road quite well.

As for michelin's? After my last experience, i'm leery of buying them for any vehicle, but i will certainly never waste money on their truck tires again. Not only did they cost $200/ea (vs. $115 for yokohama Geolander AT+2), they were noisy, uncomfortable, did not stick to ANY surface (dry, wet, ice, snow, dirt, mud, etc) and were pretty lousy at everything except for one thing- tread life. I swear to god the tires lasted for 60+k miles, which if that's all you're going for, I guess that's fine.

I live in the PNW, and with the weather conditions, hills, and other driving conditions, I buy tires to stick to the road and be safe- who cares if i have to replace them once every 3 years, instead of once every 5-6?

That being said, the yokohama's do wear significantly faster, though being almost 1/2 price, I am not too worried.

On the other hand, I'm running Advan A046's on my talon, and they are very sticky. All of the reviews of Evo vs. R32 blame the michelin pilot sport 2's for being "inferior" and losing the competition (I blame it more on the car, but never the less)...

It's not a very long wearing tire, and for a lot more miles, i can get an only slightly less sticky tire. I think i'm switching to BFG KDW2's next time. [shrug]

Just my experience on several different cars (my truck being the worst)- michelin is an ok tire most of the time, but always overpriced for the performance by about double.

 

[Big O Dave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by outrun:
Skip considering the Symetry, move on the Agility/Harmony or Hydroedge.

---

I couldn't agree more... in particular, I am very high on the Harmony... reasonable cost, long wear, nice ride, quiet, good handling and nice looking.

Good luck!

 

[Storm897]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bretfraz:
For the price I'm sure the Kumho is a decent tire but like most value priced tires, they get noisy as they wear. I'd read comments about the HP716 carefully before kicking down the $$.

---

I am on my second set of these tires and can say with ease that these tires dont produce much road noise.

Additionally, I have a 2001 Honda Civic 2dr and my next door neighbor has 2002 Honda Civic 2dr. I currently have Kumho HP4 716 and he has Michelin HydroEdge tires. Road noise is the same in both cars. We are both somewhat agressive drivers and when riding with him once in the rain I noticed his car did handle very well. Probably better then my tires would handle in the rain. Overall though I like my tires and I think for the $$$ they cant be beat.

Hydroedge 4 x $99 = $396 - $50 (visa card) = $346
HP4 4 x $38 = $152

I cant see paying more then twice the price for something that is slightly better from my experience. You could have more then 2 sets of HP4 for the cost of other tires.

[ May 25, 2005, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Storm897 ]

 

[Storm897]

Sorry, repost

 

[Floramar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Storm897:
I am on my second set of these tires and can say with ease that these tires dont produce much road noise.

Additionally, I have a 2001 Honda Civic 2dr and my next door neighbor has 2002 Honda Civic 2dr. I currently have Kumho HP4 716 and he has Michelin HydroEdge tires. Road noise is the same in both cars. We are both somewhat agressive drivers and when riding with him once in the rain I noticed his car did handle very well. Probably better then my tires would handle in the rain. Overall though I like my tires and I think for the $$$ they cant be beat.

Hydroedge 4 x $99 = $396 - $50 (visa card) = $346
HP4 4 x $38 = $152

I cant see paying more then twice the price for something that is slightly better from my experience. You could have more then 2 sets of HP4 for the cost of other tires.

---

Thanks Storm897. Your personal experience with both HP4 716 and Hydroedge is what I am looking for. If only someone else has experience with both Avid Touring and HP4 716.

Thanks for comparing the price too. I've added what I'm interested in for 205/65/15 base on Tirerack.com:

Yoko Avid Touring 4 x 52 = $208
Kumho 716 4 x 44 = $176
Mich. Harmony 4 x 90 = $360 - $50(visa gc)
GY TripleTred 4 x 85 = $340 - $40(rebate)
GY Comfortred 4 x 72 = $288 - $40(rebate)

Base on what I've learned, I think I can't go very wrong with either Avid touring or Kumho. They are definitely the value buy.

On the other hand, for about $100 - $130 more, Harmony seems like a good choice as it's treadlife is definitely longer. I also tend to believe Michelin tire is better built as in it's not likely to get noisier or vibrate over time - call it consistency? I hate to pay more purely for the sake of brand name.

I don't know much abt GY. And I've read a couple of bad reviews on Comfortred for vibrating and bad balancing. I'll leave them out for now to make my choice easier.

Thank you all for your comments. Keep them coming.

 

[Pablo]

I have now (after not even noticing this thread

) come to the exact comparo after looking at a LOT of tires.

Kumho 716 vs. Yokohama AVID

Both seem to be good tires, and even better for the price. (I had my share of Michelin, Dun lop, BF Goodrich, Perelli, Continental, Nitto...no thanks anymore)

One problem - the Kumho just doesn't seem to be available....especially in 205/55-16. What's up with that?

 

[Floramar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
I have now (after not even noticing this thread

) come to the exact comparo after looking at a LOT of tires.

Kumho 716 vs. Yokohama AVID

Both seem to be good tires, and even better for the price. (I had my share of Michelin, Dun lop, BF Goodrich, Perelli, Continental, Nitto...no thanks anymore)

One problem - the Kumho just doesn't seem to be available....especially in 205/55-16. What's up with that?

---

Went to Discount Tire and talked to a service guy and was told that Avid Touring has 'S' only rating and is not recommended as Camry requires a minimum of 'T' rating. I told him I'm not going to drive beyond the speed limit of 'S' but I was told it's not just the speed, it also has to do with the carcas of the tire being able to hold the weight of the vehicle. Any comment on this?

 

[doubleclutch]

Over the years I have had better luck and satisfaction with Michelin tires. I put a set of Harmonys on my son's '95 T Bird replacing a set of Rainforces by Michelin. They are great tires. The next set I buy will be the Hydroedges. I have a friend that purchased a set and he highly recommends them.

 

[Storm897]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
I have now (after not even noticing this thread

) come to the exact comparo after looking at a LOT of tires.

Kumho 716 vs. Yokohama AVID

Both seem to be good tires, and even better for the price. (I had my share of Michelin, Dun lop, BF Goodrich, Perelli, Continental, Nitto...no thanks anymore)

One problem - the Kumho just doesn't seem to be available....especially in 205/55-16. What's up with that?

---

$62 Kumho HP4 716 205/55HR16