440 Dodge. No oil pressure. Help!!!!

[Chris142]

I do A/c and Radiator work.

A customer brought in a 1972 Dodge powered Motorhome. It has a 440.

I replaced some A/C lines and charged the A/C system.

I did not touch anything else on the thing.

I was running it at 1500 rpm when the lifters got noisy and it began to rattle. I quickly looked at the stock oil pressure guage and it was all the way at the bottom of the guage. I then shut the thing off.

I checked the oil. It is ok. I then removed the oil filter (Fram PH43) and it was full of oil. This is the correct filter for this engine (Although personaly I would not use a Fram)

The filter mounts directly to the oil pump which is external on BB Mopars. I was able to squirt some oil into the passage that leads to the pump, thinkin it lost it's prime or ?

I put the filter back on and ran it for 15 seconds or so while I tapped on the Oil Pressure Reliefe valve passage with a small hammer.

Nuthin. Of course the customer is blaming me even though I was working on the A/C and never touched the engine.

Anybody got some easy tricks or ideas?

 

[Dan4510]

Make sure the distributor is not loose. It goes across the front of the engine and slots into the oil pump drive. 1/4 loose and it can come out of the oil pump drive.

That is the next obvious place to check.

Dan

 

[Chris142]

Great idea! Thanks! I had not thought of that but I could see it happening. I'll check that tomorrow.

Keep them coming too.

 

[Chris142]

The distributer is sitting flush with the block.

Monday I'm gonna pull the oil pump off. Luckily It is on the outside of the engine and looks easy to get to.

The customer has come to his sensis some and is no longer pointing the finger at me.

I am selling him the pump at my cost $65. I'll install it for free if it's as easy as it looks. Aparantly I must re-use the old "Cover".

I'm thinking this is the part that the filter screws on to. If the gears run on it and it's scored I'll send it out to be surfaced and I'll clean up the Pressure reliefe valve and cross my fingers.

 

[TheTanSedan]

The intermediate shaft between the distributor and oil pump is kept in place by a bronze-like bushing in the oil gallery (easy to see with distributor out). Doesn't seem to match to problem noted, but if shavings of a like material are found, then at least have a look at it. Manual shows a particular tool to remove/replace that essentially "fits" it to block by expansion, so-to-speak. Also burnishes interior of bushing for easing the shaft into place. (I've been able to remove/replace on same with a hot motor w/o tool. Once cold, couldn't budge it, and have not ever again been able to move it [35k miles]).

Go to www.moparts.org "Tech Archive", thread on "oil pump" and others. A huge bunch of helpful people who can set your mind at ease with your questions.

Low oil pressure on mine was (at the time, 17-years and 70k+ miles) was due to sludge at the pickup. I ran a butyl cellosolve cleaner that was handy through and changed oil several times thereafter in short order. Car now has 135k. Pulled pan at 99k when rebuilding suspension to clean/inspect and replace 20-year old gasket. Extra clean -- despite some varnish -- as had about 20k on M1 15W-50 at this point.

My bet is on gunk somewhere in there as at least a contributing problem. Engine out of production since 1978 though industrial/motorhome sales continued for some years past that.

 

[Whimsey]

I'm with tan on this one. Being a 1972 Motorhome it began it's early and mid life with less than ideal oil. Most likely a dino oil and probably it was not changed too frequently. But it was stressed moving that heavy motorhome in the summer heat most likely. Is the oil pan "easy" to remove? Maybe you can make a deal with the owner. If it is gunked you get paid for the removal and cleaning plus whatever parts are needed. If it's not gunked you eat your labor costs. These types of problems where something completely different from what you were fixing happens and the shop is then blamed for the problem is not unusual. It's the old..."my dog whose dead today wasn't dead yesterday" scenario. I have a totally unrelated business and the same thing happens to me.

Whimsey

 

[Chris142]

Removing the oil pan on this monster would mean engine removal and fiberglass cutting! I looked and there's no way. The body and frame are built around the engine.

I'm not getting into that kind of work during my busiest part of the season plus we are an A/C and Radiator shop only. We don't do anything else unless we work on our cars on a weekend.

I did get it fixed though. Removing the old pump was nearly impossible! Between no room to work and the stuck gaskets. Took 2 hours to get it off.

I took the dead one apart and it looks good. The pressure reliefe valve is free and the gear that pumps the oil does not look bad. But I don't have a way to measure anything and just looking at stuff might not tell us much. Insides were clean as was the driveshaft.

I primed the new pump with STP the motor honey stuff. I thought it would be good for this purpose. I spent about 30 minutes grinding on a motor mount ear so that the new pump would fit.
It (pump) was slightly longer and interferred with the mount ear.

I removed the Orange filter and installed a new Purolater that I had prefilled with SAE30.

The oil pressure came up immediatly and all but 1 lifter was quiet within 20 seconds or so. After a minute or so the last remaining lifter got quiet.

I let it rum untill it warmed up, revved it a few times, then shut it down and checked the oil level.

Seems fine.

 

[Dan4510]

Would you cut the orange filter open and see if it was collapsed?...you changed too many things to know which one did the trick.

I didnt think to ask about the filter being a fram...

Nonetheless, glad you fixed it. I hated those you changed my brake shoes and broke my carbureator jobs when I worked as a mechanic.

Dan

 

[Chris142]

Today I started the thing for a few seconds with the filter off before I changed the pump. No oil came out.