GM goes Rice
- Thread starter 427Z06
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No matter what you think of the whole "Rice Rod" market, it's quite significant in size and continues to grow. GM would be crazy not to cater to it. They finally have a car of that size worth considering (Cobalt), so they should offer performance options for it. Scanning over some of the material, I'm actually quite impressed with the level of detail. There's some pretty extensive and very technical information there. I was impressed that they reveal the max designed HP level for the engine internals, such as the pistons, con rods and such, and tell you what parts you need for what HP level. Good for GM!
On a related note, if the HHR becomes popular, just watch what'll happen to the performance market for it. I'm seeing some very positive reviews already and, having seen it in person, it's a pretty impressive car. There's a lot of performance potential there. The engine is a 175 hp 2.4L Ecotech. With boost, it could be a real beast.
On a related note, if the HHR becomes popular, just watch what'll happen to the performance market for it. I'm seeing some very positive reviews already and, having seen it in person, it's a pretty impressive car. There's a lot of performance potential there. The engine is a 175 hp 2.4L Ecotech. With boost, it could be a real beast.
The HHR is a PT Cruiser copy from what I've seen. A definite tip of the hat to Chrysler there...
GM may or may not actually get off their duffs to be competitive with the Asian products. GM has the wherewithal (engineering and design-wise) to trounce the Japanese products--EASILY. And GM simply doesn't use it--or rarely uses it--depending on your point of view.
I think General Motors has gotten a bit lazy, sort of like a huge German Shepherd which lets a little Chihuahua like Toyota get the best of them while they sleep. GM better wake up and fight before Toyota nibbles their tail off!
Dan
GM may or may not actually get off their duffs to be competitive with the Asian products. GM has the wherewithal (engineering and design-wise) to trounce the Japanese products--EASILY. And GM simply doesn't use it--or rarely uses it--depending on your point of view.
I think General Motors has gotten a bit lazy, sort of like a huge German Shepherd which lets a little Chihuahua like Toyota get the best of them while they sleep. GM better wake up and fight before Toyota nibbles their tail off!
Dan
This came up on another board I frequent and the initial responses were much the same. Then someone posted up a pic of like a 50s Suburban and there is a strong resemblance at least as much as what there is to the PT.
Look back through history, remeber the "new Ram" ads of the 90s when they went to the more or less current bodystyle now look at a 70 Chevy or GMC Dodge took their nose clearly from there.
Yes I am a GM man but they have deserted me I own the last car GM built that I would want for a daily driver, a 96 Caprice it was the last year of the fullsize V8 RWD at GM word is something is comming back but I am fairly certain I will be disappointed. My other car is a 95 Roadmaster Wagon much the same car as the Caprice and I feel it is exactly what most people need these days huge amouts of space lots of comforts V8 with good milage and a tow rating that puts a lot of light trucks to shame. People wont buy them though they would rather an underpowered minivan with the same milage I get or an SUV with signifigantly less milage just a little more room and a lot higher pricetag.
Look back through history, remeber the "new Ram" ads of the 90s when they went to the more or less current bodystyle now look at a 70 Chevy or GMC Dodge took their nose clearly from there.
Yes I am a GM man but they have deserted me I own the last car GM built that I would want for a daily driver, a 96 Caprice it was the last year of the fullsize V8 RWD at GM word is something is comming back but I am fairly certain I will be disappointed. My other car is a 95 Roadmaster Wagon much the same car as the Caprice and I feel it is exactly what most people need these days huge amouts of space lots of comforts V8 with good milage and a tow rating that puts a lot of light trucks to shame. People wont buy them though they would rather an underpowered minivan with the same milage I get or an SUV with signifigantly less milage just a little more room and a lot higher pricetag.
That's only wishful thinking. Engineers and designers learn by doing and working with more experianced, competent engineers or designers. Since GM isn't doing much real engineering or designing, they can't be developing the talent that some other companies are.
Unfortunately, there goes Corporate America. As an engineer with 25+ years experience in the field, we've been shat on, spat on, then untimately told that there are people overseas that will gladly do our jobs for 1/10 the cost. Go figure.
427Z06,
sounds like engineering downunder.
We are told that we are over paid, underqualified, and our beancounters devise process after process that defines profitability to 27 decimal places, where the raw input is an engineer's best engineering assessment.
I wish that I was an engineer back when Smokey was playing, and they were designing the SBC/Hemi/anything.
I liked the article linking 600 to 1000hp 4 cylinders.
It looked greatly like my old hotrodding mags...cept that stuff about 'puters.
sounds like engineering downunder.
We are told that we are over paid, underqualified, and our beancounters devise process after process that defines profitability to 27 decimal places, where the raw input is an engineer's best engineering assessment.
I wish that I was an engineer back when Smokey was playing, and they were designing the SBC/Hemi/anything.
I liked the article linking 600 to 1000hp 4 cylinders.
It looked greatly like my old hotrodding mags...cept that stuff about 'puters.
That is the 'merican way!!!quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:
Unfortunately, there goes Corporate America. As an engineer with 25+ years experience in the field, we've been shat on, spat on, then untimately told that there are people overseas that will gladly do our jobs for 1/10 the cost. Go figure.
FWD sucks big time imo .
Timeslip Database
# 1/4 Mile ET & MPH 1/8 Mile ET & MPH 60' Username Car Turbo Slip
1 [email protected] [email protected] 1.336 jshepherd 91 Talon TSi AWD Full Garrett
done right there are others to consider.
"to trounce the Japanese products--EASILY" right
# 1/4 Mile ET & MPH 1/8 Mile ET & MPH 60' Username Car Turbo Slip
1 [email protected] [email protected] 1.336 jshepherd 91 Talon TSi AWD Full Garrett
done right there are others to consider.
"to trounce the Japanese products--EASILY" right
I thought u guys converted those DSMs to RWD after getting that fast?quote:
Originally posted by gstmitsueclipsespyder:
Timeslip Database
# 1/4 Mile ET & MPH 1/8 Mile ET & MPH 60' Username Car Turbo Slip
1 [email protected] [email protected] 1.336 jshepherd 91 Talon TSi AWD Full Garrett
done right there are others to consider.
"to trounce the Japanese products--EASILY" right
matt
Yep pretty easy with 100% American steel..lolquote:
Originally posted by gstmitsueclipsespyder:
Timeslip Database
# 1/4 Mile ET & MPH 1/8 Mile ET & MPH 60' Username Car Turbo Slip
1 [email protected] [email protected] 1.336 jshepherd 91 Talon TSi AWD Full Garrett
done right there are others to consider.
"to trounce the Japanese products--EASILY" right
1.049
4.598 @ 149.65
7.28 @ 180.3
Air density 2500'
1980lb 4 link normally aspirated V8 Does it all day long lol
I say don't bring a pop gun to a gun fight...
Japanese manufactures the highest quality cars/engines as far as precicion of build quality goes.
i'm no fan of pushrods, but chevy's new 427 small block looks fantastic, as do the current LS6 400hp motors that are found in things like the GTO. Ford has done some nice things with their SOHC v8's lately, and frankly, the chrysler 300 is a very comfortable well put together car.
I'd say that american manufacturers have come a long way from the early 90's when the superiority of japan was quite clear. I have two cars with the same powertrain, one built in Normal, IL, and the other built in Japan. I'll let you guess which one has all of the rattles.
American cars that are actually still built in america and not mexico are on an upwards climb. Most japanese manufacturers are building their cars here now anyway, and are more "American" than "Japanese". Got to love the international market.
I'd say that american manufacturers have come a long way from the early 90's when the superiority of japan was quite clear. I have two cars with the same powertrain, one built in Normal, IL, and the other built in Japan. I'll let you guess which one has all of the rattles.
American cars that are actually still built in america and not mexico are on an upwards climb. Most japanese manufacturers are building their cars here now anyway, and are more "American" than "Japanese". Got to love the international market.
quick16: I love those kind of cars, but i believe that falls into the "motor welded to a set of tires" not "full interior street legal car".
For what it's worth, Shepherd still hasn't gotten the car fully dialed, and his new best is 8.14 @ 177- they're having traction problems, even with AWD & DR's.
I'm glad to see that chevy is trying to take back some of the import market- The only way they can pull off the cobalt/sky/solstice/etc is to force an aftermarket. The aftermarket for all the other companies (toyota, mitsu, honda, nissan, etc) didn't develop overnight. By forcing that hand, a more widespread adoption is more likely.
While FWD *does* suck, I don't think that you can call a 1400hp, 2.4L "rice"
Rice = show w/o go. Like 14 second open headered V8's at the racetrack.
uke:
I'm just saying that it doesn't matter whether you have 4/6/8/10 or 12 cylinders, most anything can be fast, it just takes some gumption and some know how.
For what it's worth, Shepherd still hasn't gotten the car fully dialed, and his new best is 8.14 @ 177- they're having traction problems, even with AWD & DR's.
I'm glad to see that chevy is trying to take back some of the import market- The only way they can pull off the cobalt/sky/solstice/etc is to force an aftermarket. The aftermarket for all the other companies (toyota, mitsu, honda, nissan, etc) didn't develop overnight. By forcing that hand, a more widespread adoption is more likely.
While FWD *does* suck, I don't think that you can call a 1400hp, 2.4L "rice"
Rice = show w/o go. Like 14 second open headered V8's at the racetrack.
uke:I'm just saying that it doesn't matter whether you have 4/6/8/10 or 12 cylinders, most anything can be fast, it just takes some gumption and some know how.
Yeah, back in the 90's it was clear that in the small car market, japan won. If you compare a 95 Civic to a 95 Cavalier, the Civic trounces it. I would be fooled if a 95 civic was rebadged as an '00.
correction the LS2. The only other car besides the c5 z06 that offered the ls6 powerplant is the CTS-Vquote:
Originally posted by slugsgomoo:
i'm no fan of pushrods, but chevy's new 427 small block looks fantastic, as do the current LS6 400hp motors that are found in things like the GTO. Ford has done some nice things with their SOHC v8's lately, and frankly, the chrysler 300 is a very comfortable well put together car.
I'd say that american manufacturers have come a long way from the early 90's when the superiority of japan was quite clear. I have two cars with the same powertrain, one built in Normal, IL, and the other built in Japan. I'll let you guess which one has all of the rattles.
American cars that are actually still built in america and not mexico are on an upwards climb. Most japanese manufacturers are building their cars here now anyway, and are more "American" than "Japanese". Got to love the international market.
I agree in most of that statement, except w/ a stock engine it's kinda hard to push my car into fast 1/4 Mile times when it almost weighs 2x as much as one of those little civicsquote:
Originally posted by slugsgomoo:
Rice = show w/o go. Like 14 second open headered V8's at the racetrack.
Matt
Buffman: If i can run 13's on a 2.0L motor, and 3300lbs + driver & gas, it shouldn't be too hard for 5, 6 & 7 liter motors.
I have nothing but respect for fast v8's, there are a LOT of them. Heck, I am not a huge ford fan, but when I see a mustang (600+ cube) run a 7.24 @ 193 i'm pretty dang wowed. I have noticed one thing though...
the really fast v8 guys at the racetrack run better mufflers, and quieter cars than the slow guys. Just like the faster imports don't have that nasty farty sound. (with imports, it comes from running too big a muffler, and too small an exhaust diameter- yuck)
As far as i'm concerned, "rice" can be domestic or foreign, and it's "that which doesn't make you faster, corner better, etc."
I'm also a bit old fashioned and think that a performance car should get wailed on.
I have nothing but respect for fast v8's, there are a LOT of them. Heck, I am not a huge ford fan, but when I see a mustang (600+ cube) run a 7.24 @ 193 i'm pretty dang wowed. I have noticed one thing though...
the really fast v8 guys at the racetrack run better mufflers, and quieter cars than the slow guys. Just like the faster imports don't have that nasty farty sound. (with imports, it comes from running too big a muffler, and too small an exhaust diameter- yuck)
As far as i'm concerned, "rice" can be domestic or foreign, and it's "that which doesn't make you faster, corner better, etc."
I'm also a bit old fashioned and think that a performance car should get wailed on.
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