I think I'm going to change direction for a race car...

[Thomas Pyrek]

Last weekend I autocrossed my prelude (on M&S all seasons on a HP course) and actually had a lot of fun. I totally forgot how fun it was to drive a slow car (with lots of camber) that isn't supposed to be fast.


Now I'm actually starting to look at setting it up for HS...

Anyone know where I can find a cheap (free) service manual to rebuild a Honda carburator?

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

Nevermind, seeing the cost of wheels, I think I'll be doing DSP.

 

[Solo2driver]

Forget the lightweight wheels, get a set of 195/60-14 Falkens and run them on your stock alloys, or purchase another set of junkyard alloys and go with V700's (or next year's V710's). THEN get new shocks and have it aligned, maybe replace the tie-rod ends (cheap, and are often toast on older Hondas) for better steering feel.

Don't rebuild the carb, its waaay too expensive and time consuming. Just pour some SeaFoam down the throat, it'll help the top end free up as well. Make sure the motor is healthy and the ignition system is up to par (important on the older Hondas), and you're all set.

HS is way fun, give it a try!!! DSP is too competitive with the IS300 and 3-Series, not to mention SpecMiata if the conditions are right. I am going to build a SpecMiata in 2006 for ProSpecMiata/Regional SpecMiata/Solo2 DSP/Grand Am Cup Sport Touring II ('cause it's televised).

-JamesW
almost-H Stock 94 Suzuki Swift GT,
but STS/STX is pretty darn fun too!

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

Dude, I'm sick of street tires. There's too much local BS in Chicago Region that I just want to get out of it. Plus, this car really isn't even a HS car due to things done by the previous owner. I see it more worthwhile to go to DSP than to return this car to HS.

This isn't going to be a nationals car, so it really doesn't matter as much. No one in DSP around here is too crazy, so since wide wheels can be had for cheap (~$60 for 13x8), I don't see much of a problem doing that.

Shocks and Tires are the two most expensive things and they will cost the same whetehr I'm in DSP or HS.

Wheels = ~$300
Coilovers = ~$350

And I can buy another car for less than $600 and transfer all that if I wreck it. That doesnt' sound bad at all


What ignition stuff tends to go bad? I've already done basic tune up stuff.

 

[Solo2driver]

Okay, good points...just offering some suggestions. 14" Falkens have a completely different construction than the 15"+ sizes, and feel A LOT like a Kumho Victoracer, especially when shaved...and they're cheeeep. But then again so are used race tires and Diamond Racing 13x8's.

Mmmmm dual Mikuni's mmmmmmmm

Basic tune-up stuff is important, and sometimes "bad carb" or other problems can simply be traced back to not enough spark...though having your valves/CVCC (depending on the year) all gunked up doesn't help, but usually a nice strong spark can cure a lot of roughness and hesitation when it comes to the pre-1989 carb'd Hondas that may be running too rich. If they're lean, you probably already have a cracked or warped head

-JamesW
CSP '88 Honda CRX DX (full national setup)
ES '86 Honda CRX Si
GS '86 Honda CRX Si
GS '86 Honda Civic Si
STS '86 Honda Civic Si
CSP/Spec7 '85 Mazda RX-7 12A
DSP/STU '87 Merkur XR4Ti
STS '89 Honda Civic Si
STS '94 Suzuki Swift GT
I think that's all of them

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

I'm not going to go used tires, but new Kumho's are 108 and hoosiers are 157 (or 155 if I want to go bias ply and use the Hoosier Autocrossers. Any comment on those?)

Probably could very well be some of the ignition stuff then. I've replaced vac hoses, ran various cleaners and things did get better, but they're still there occasionally. I did an oil analysis and fuel came back fine and the spark plugs have always looked normal, so I know I'm not running rich.

I'm still a noob when it comes to repair stuff. That actually makes a lot of sense. There is a problem with my Advance diaphram (and it does both advance and retard) so that very well could solve my problem when I fix it. properly.

Thanks much for your help! You're the best source for this that I have found!

BTW, Colin finally sold his civic. It was to someone in the Kansas area whos name escapes me.

[ November 04, 2004, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Thomas Pyrek ]

 

[FL-400S]

Ive got a stock 1994 base model Tercel 4 speed. Its got P175 R13 Michelin Weatherwise Sport tires. I can get a Paseo front sway bar with poly bushings and a front strut bar for it. What classes would I be able to race in?

Im semi-serious...

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

Don't get a strut tower bar. They are worthless and will bump you to a different class. All the other things you speak of will put you in H Stock. SCCA Stock class rules allow for any sway bar and sway bar mounting brackets.

You might want to hold off on the front sway bar. Some FWD chassis perform best with no front sway bar at all.

 

[Solo2driver]

Any change to the FRONT sway bar ONLY is Stock class legal...bar and/or mounts and/or material is free up front, but stock rubber only in the rear.

Actually, on a lot of the Toyota chassis stiffening up the front allows for less body roll and camber change across the suspension geometry when it loads up while cornering. To dial out the resulting understeer that may occur (much of that can be dialed out with a different corner entry approach and trailbraking) with rear air pressure and rear toe settings. FWD is a different animal, but if you learn how to drive FWD fast, everything else comes easily.

-JamesW

 

[FL-400S]

I think this has a stock rear sway bar, according to the window sticker. But its a solid rear axle so I have no idea how it works. Paseos are the same undercarriage and had 4 wheel discs and front swaybars. I probably should get a 5 speed '95-97 paseo and just race that, since its got more ponies too.

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

If you are going to buy a car for solo do your homework and look for a car that can be competative.


If you're going to spend money on the expensive part of racing (the car), why not spend it on something that has the highest level of potential in your price rance.

 

[Solo2driver]

So that means (as of this year)..
SS- Z06 (C5) or C6 Corvette, or Lotus Elise
AS- C4 Corvette or Honda S2000, or Porsche Boxter
BS- BMW M3 or Honda S2000
CS- Toyota MR2 Spyder or Miata
DS- BMW 330Ci Sport, Integra Type-R, WRX?
ES- Toyota MR2, Miata
FS- Mustang Mach-1
GS- Toyota Celica GT (not GT-S), 05+ MINI Cooper S
HS- MINI Cooper

ASP- Corvetts
BSP- Corvette
CSP- Miata or Toyota MR2 Spyder, early CRX
DSP- BMW 3-series, Toyota IS300
ESP- Mustang or Camaro/Firebird
FSP- early Golf, Scirocco, Suzuki Swift GTi

STS- early Honda Civic Si, Subaru 2.5RS
STX- WRX, BMW 3-Series/M3 (E30)
STU- WRX STi, Evo, BMW M3 (E36)

SM- Whatever you got!
SM2- Mazda RX-7 TT, Corvette

AP- Mazda RX-7 Turbo
BP- Mazda RX-7 Turbo
CP- Mustang or GM F-Body
DP- early CRX, Miata
EP- Miata, RX-7 12A
FP- misc British roadsters, RX-7

FM- Formula 500
FSAE- Formula SAE
F125- Something Honda


That's all I've got off the top of my head based on National results from the last couple seasons. If you're going to start out with something and have the $$ and drive, at least start in the right direction...you may not be able to afford a National Setup, but just having the right car takes a lot of the work out of it.

The Paseo in HS would be perfect; its light and has 14" wheels and a willing motor. Get it aligned and decent tires and just drive it a lot, don't worry about too much else than your driving for now....except for some good oil of course!

-JamesW

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

Why is the 88crx not as good of a car?

 

[Solo2driver]

88 CRX Si is still a decent car for G Stock, but due to the fact that it came with 5" wide 14" wheels and is 2200lbs, it just cannot overcome the more powerful Celica (15x6.5" wheels, 140+ hp, up to -3 deg camber stock w/bolts, 2450lbs) or the 160+ hp (with LSD!) MINI Cooper S that can handle MUCH more tire underneath it, it just doesn't stand a chance in modern Solo and ProSolo. Nationally speaking, of course.

In CSP, the Toyota Spyder is already at the same (or lighter) stock weight, has an LSD (optional), and makes at least 50 more hp stock. Team that with mid-engine balance, and its just too much work to drive a CRX with 13x9's to keep up.

Oh-- Hoosier bias-ply "Autocrossers" worked well, but the Kumho V700 in a 235-45-13 will last like 15x longer. I hear that the new V710 will be released in the smaller sizes, and is already a better compound than the Hoosier at a lower cost, and lasts a lot longer. And Kumho has the same contingency winnings as Hoosier. So why not?

-JamesW

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

Data I've heard says the Hoosiers last a lot longer than the 710's.


Not looking at GS. I've already got a GS car that I no longer wish to race.

Actually, the 88 crx I would be looking at is most likely an HF, so it tips the scales at 1800 lbs stock (per research that I found). find a junkyard car and swap in the motor and trans and that doesn't look like too much of a disadvantage (especially locally, where I intend to do 99% of my racing).

Now the question is how much rust does this car have. Winter is back and is reminding me how much I hate my prelude (fuel milage drops off dramatically and it wasn't good to begin with).


I may be e-mailing you and asking you a bunch of crx setup stuff like spring rates and wheel backspacing for 13x9's (that just sounds wrong...).


One last question, do CRX's have power steering? Found a poorly arranged chart that seemed to hint that there was no power steering.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thomas Pyrek:
Dude, I'm sick of street tires. There's too much local BS in Chicago Region that I just want to get out of it. Plus, this car really isn't even a HS car due to things done by the previous owner. I see it more worthwhile to go to DSP than to return this car to HS.

This isn't going to be a nationals car, so it really doesn't matter as much. No one in DSP around here is too crazy, so since wide wheels can be had for cheap (~$60 for 13x8), I don't see much of a problem doing that.

Shocks and Tires are the two most expensive things and they will cost the same whetehr I'm in DSP or HS.

Wheels = ~$300
Coilovers = ~$350

And I can buy another car for less than $600 and transfer all that if I wreck it. That doesnt' sound bad at all

---

Drive down to the Champaign Club events once a month at Rantoul. You get a lot of runs and we're pretty casual.

Running an old car is fun even if it's not all that competitive. I only ran my old Mustang twice this year on ancient Yokohama 008's and while it was slow I did have a good time so I was happy.

SCCA has most of the stock classes completely messed. The only way to remain in the hunt is to buy a new car every 2-3 years and spend the cash on tires, shocks, brake pads, etc. since the cars keep getting better every year and you can't update or backdate and remain "stock."

I'm still trying to decide if I I'll run my car in ESP since I'd like to swap to later model disc brakes in the back and that will kick me out of FS.

If you're looking for inexpensive tires you might call Vilven and price Toyo's. Not as fast as the others but pretty durable from what I've seen...

[ November 09, 2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsharp:
Drive down to the Champaign Club events once a month at Rantoul. You get a lot of runs and we're pretty casual.

Running an old car is fun even if it's not all that competitive. I only ran my old Mustang twice this year on ancient Yokohama 008's and while it was slow I did have a good time so I was happy.

SCCA has most of the stock classes completely messed. The only way to remain in the hunt is to buy a new car every 2-3 years and spend the cash on tires, shocks, brake pads, etc. since the cars keep getting better every year and you can't update or backdate and remain "stock."

I'm still trying to decide if I I'll run my car in ESP since I'd like to swap to later model disc brakes in the back and that will kick me out of FS.

If you're looking for inexpensive tires you might call Vilven and price Toyo's. Not as fast as the others but pretty durable from what I've seen...

---

Thanks for the offer, but nah. I usually drive up to Milwaukee and enjoy the courses designed by Darrel Padberg. Plus, I don't like driving more than an hour and a half to a race. If you let me stay at your place saturday night I might consider it though

I've actually done fairly well with my old z in stock(nearly in the top 20 in Chicago Region when I was on race tires, but always bought used **** and they kept crapping out on me), but I've been driving on street tires lately. Now I'm just sick of that car and want to do something different.
I know about the Toyo's. I would rather run Hoosiers.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thomas Pyrek:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsharp:
Drive down to the Champaign Club events once a month at Rantoul. You get a lot of runs and we're pretty casual.

Running an old car is fun even if it's not all that competitive. I only ran my old Mustang twice this year on ancient Yokohama 008's and while it was slow I did have a good time so I was happy.

SCCA has most of the stock classes completely messed. The only way to remain in the hunt is to buy a new car every 2-3 years and spend the cash on tires, shocks, brake pads, etc. since the cars keep getting better every year and you can't update or backdate and remain "stock."

I'm still trying to decide if I I'll run my car in ESP since I'd like to swap to later model disc brakes in the back and that will kick me out of FS.

If you're looking for inexpensive tires you might call Vilven and price Toyo's. Not as fast as the others but pretty durable from what I've seen...

---

Thanks for the offer, but nah. I usually drive up to Milwaukee and enjoy the courses designed by Darrel Padberg. Plus, I don't like driving more than an hour and a half to a race. If you let me stay at your place saturday night I might consider it though

I've actually done fairly well with my old z in stock(nearly in the top 20 in Chicago Region when I was on race tires, but always bought used **** and they kept crapping out on me), but I've been driving on street tires lately. Now I'm just sick of that car and want to do something different.
I know about the Toyo's. I would rather run Hoosiers.

---

We could probably find you somewhere to sleep. Lots of room around my place if you like cats...

I guess running a stock car depends on the car you pick. Some of the older ones are quite competitive. Others are less so. It might pay to find out what some of the people on the competition committee own. Right now I'm betting there're are more Evos and Subarus than Mustangs and Camaros...

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

do you not go by the National SCCA Rules?

 

[jsharp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thomas Pyrek:
do you not go by the National SCCA Rules?

---

We do use national rules. I shouldn't have said "stock" classes but I always think of the street prepared classes as extensions of them. FS is fine if you have a newer Mustang or Camaro. ESP is where I'll ( and anyone else with an older car that's slightly modified ) end up though with even minor changes. There's no way my car would be competitive there no matter who's driving it without spending and modifying past the point of streetability

At this point I'm not sure you should even consider one the Detroit cars for that class unless you have one that's already complete. The AWD turbo Japanese cars are lighter, shorter, and probably 6" narrower and have about the same amount of power...