Completely Hypothetical Question: What oil would you use in this engine and why?

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Title says it all.

The engine in question is the FT588, a big-block producing (according to Hot Rod magazine) 920HP. Say this is your engine, what would you use? Redline, Royal Purple, Mobile 1R, Amsoil 2000, or others?
 
is it runing methanol or an alcohol? if so, i would run kendall nitro 70 with a sump heater. with a viscosity of 27-31 cst @ 100c, a tbn of 17 and at $1.50 a quart you can change the oil after every single race and only be out maybe $20. this way you can have fresh clean oil for each and every race and not break the bank with a synthetic.
 
How about pump gas... albeit 91+ octane pump gas? Hot Rod Magazine claims this engine will run on pump gas and produce 920HP. AND... seeing as it will run on pump gas, it could theoretically be used on the street....
 
Straight 50wt Valvoline VR-1 because of the engine clearance required to allow this thing to run @ hi-rpm w/o snagging metal parts, it can handle the nitrous the engine uses and is 2 bucks a quart so it can be dumped often and warm-up time should not be a factor .Will need some heat in it before WOT anyway .

There are two types of solid roller cam's . The kind that is hard on parts and the kind that is even harder on parts because of the killer spring pressures it takes to control the lifters and keep them on the cam lobes
tongue.gif
 
if i assume this is a dragrace engine, then M1R or some other good ~30 weight is a great choice. the oil just doesn't get hot enough to warrant the thick oils, i think.

also, solid roller. i've had long discussions with cam designers about what it takes to make a solid roller live in a street-used car, and most agree to use a very light synthetic. presumably to make sure the inner bearings on the rollers are well oiled, and oiled immediately upon startup.

if it were a circle track engine (although i can't imagine being able to focus on driving a 900hp car through a whole race), then the weight i would choose would depend on final and stable oil temps on track. if well cooled and 250 or below, a 10-15w40 would probably do it.

imo.

-michael
 
quote:

Originally posted by simpleguy_68:
How about pump gas... albeit 91+ octane pump gas? Hot Rod Magazine claims this engine will run on pump gas and produce 920HP. AND... seeing as it will run on pump gas, it could theoretically be used on the street....

If used on the street, M1 15w-50.
 
If the bearing clearances and operating temps are similar to a street engine then I don't see why you couldn't use practically any off the shelf common grade mineral or synthetic based oil.
 
I would use a custom made motor oil specifically designed for the engine based on testing ( dyno, and UOA's), made by a small high quality company in the midwest I can not name......YET.

Terry
 
quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
I would use a custom made motor oil specifically designed for the engine based on testing ( dyno, and UOA's), made by a small high quality company in the midwest I can not name......YET.

And I bet it will be an Xw20 grade, too. ;-)

(You are such a tease. hehe)
 
It would be a lubricant that shears easily for low internal friction but retains solid fluid dynamics under EP and mixed phases, the base oil is the additive pack and the add pack is the base oil. There are no organo- metals in the lubricant. The primary ingredients are high oleic base oils, VI is 220 +, flash 600+. For this engine vis would be measured at 11 cSt @ 100c, 50 cSt @ 40c. HTHS 4.0


So I'm dreaming..... not to tease but prep those of you "who have ears to hear".

TD
 
quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
It would be a lubricant that shears easily for low internal friction but retains solid fluid dynamics under EP and mixed phases, the base oil is the additive pack and the add pack is the base oil. There are no organo- metals in the lubricant. The primary ingredients are high oleic base oils, VI is 220 +, flash 600+. For this engine vis would be measured at 11 cSt @ 100c, 50 cSt @ 40c. HTHS 4.0

Great Lakes Oil in Michigan, Renewable Lubricants in Ohio, Agriculture-Based Industrial Lubricants in Iowa, and several other companies in the midwest have been working on high oleic acid motor oils from sunflower seeds, soybeans, canola and rapeseed.

Renewable Lubricants was testing an SAE 15W-40 late in 2003.

The last thing I heard was that a mix of a high oleic oil, a hydroxy fatty acid rich oil, and a liquid wax ester was outperforming mineral oils, increasing horsepower, and dropping emissions.
 
quote:

It would be a lubricant that shears easily for low internal friction but retains solid fluid dynamics under EP and mixed phases, the base oil is the additive pack and the add pack is the base oil. There are no organo- metals in the lubricant. The primary ingredients are high oleic base oils, VI is 220 +, flash 600+. For this engine vis would be measured at 11 cSt @ 100c, 50 cSt @ 40c. HTHS 4.0

bowdown.gif
Keep me posted!
 
Wouldn't it be nice to grow our own lubes in the US fields instead of pumping that thick stuff out of Venezuela ???


Mickey how much of that "HOBS" were you using in tri syn ?

Terry
 
Oleic acid isn't as bad as the poly unsaturated ones, but it is still is unsaturated and will polymerize when exposed to heat and air without significant amounts of additives. Glycerin is one of the least stable polyols, having tertiary hydrogens. Trimethylol propane or pentaethrythol are more stable. Esters may make good lubes, but unless I can have ones made with a more stable base, I will stick to dino.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
Wouldn't it be nice to grow our own lubes in the US fields instead of pumping that thick stuff out of Venezuela ???

Mickey how much of that "HOBS" were you using in tri syn ?


Just remember that droughts occur.

Agricultural products are not an unlimited or free resource.

Now a high quality synthetic from coal .....

High-oleic base stocks (HOBS) are used by a number of manufacturers. Most of them
consider the exact formulation proprietary information. Those interested in reading
about some actual products can check out:

http://www.renewablelube.com

http://www.renewablelube.com/products/racing.htm
 
quote:

Originally posted by labman:
Oleic acid isn't as bad as the poly unsaturated ones, but it is still is unsaturated and will polymerize when exposed to heat and air without significant amounts of additives. Glycerin is one of the least stable polyols, having tertiary hydrogens. Trimethylol propane or pentaethrythol are more stable. Esters may make good lubes, but unless I can have ones made with a more stable base, I will stick to dino.

http://www.abiluni.org/HTMLpages/News/99_News_SNL.shtml

"Laboratory tests showed it to have excellent lubrication and wear-protection properties, but soybean oil's lack of oxidative stability and a tendency toward polymerization were concerns. Genetic modifications to the soybean itself were used to change the fatty acid content of the oil seed, raising its oleic acid content and increasing the soybean oil's oxidative stability. Partial hydrogenation and various additives also improved the vegetable-oil lubricant's laboratory performance, and it was judged ready for field-testing. "

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1999/v4-247.html

"The internal combustion engine is an extreme environment for vegetable oil. The combination of extreme pressure and heat frequently cause a polymerization of the oil, changing the oil into a plastic within a short period of time. This polymerization has been observed since the development of the internal combustion engine. Prior attempts after the turn of the 20th century found the lifespan of vegetable oils to be unacceptable for modern engine applications. As engine compression increased with increasing requirements of power and performance, vegetable oils were found to be severely lacking in performance. Vegetable oils frequently would polymerize within hours of engine startup. Attempts to use fatty acid esters derived from vegetable oils were successful but production costs made them unacceptable to consumers."

"The blending of any of several common base oils with hydroxy oils and wax esters, however, provided the initial functional motor oil. Modifications and variations of these oils have been made to adjust for various applications ranging from small, air cooled engine applications to water cooled, gasoline and diesel engines. Using a base oil derived from essentially any vegetable oil, initially being canola, with a relatively high concentration of monounsaturated fatty acids, was key to providing for an oil that met the objectives of the project."

KeepMedia > The Corn and Soybean Digest > February 15, 2004 >

"When research began on soy-based lubricants, one of the initial challenges was improving the oxidative stability of soy-based oils. "

"'Vegetable-based oils tend to oxidize and, if not controlled, form a gel on the top layer of the oil, which can hinder performance,' says Diane Neuzil of the Agriculture-Based Industrial Lubricants (ABIL) Research Program."

"She reports that the oil was chemically modified and chemical additives were used to solve the
stability issue."

"But through research such as the Better Bean Initiative, high-oleic soybeans have now been
developed that produce more stable oil from the seed."

"As a result, little modification is needed to meet the needs of lubricant manufacturers."

http://www.sterlinggrade.com/index.htm

I think you'll find that the polymerization problem has been licked by a combination of
relatively low cost techniques, including genetic modifications to the seeds.
 
quote:

Great Lakes Oil in Michigan, Renewable Lubricants in Ohio, Agriculture-Based Industrial Lubricants in Iowa, and several other companies in the midwest have been working on high oleic acid motor oils from sunflower seeds, soybeans, canola and rapeseed.

Renewable Lubricants was testing an SAE 15W-40 late in 2003.

The last thing I heard was that a mix of a high oleic oil, a hydroxy fatty acid rich oil, and a liquid wax ester was outperforming mineral oils, increasing horsepower, and dropping emissions.

Oooh, Mickey, you and me travel in the same circles.
shocked.gif
 
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