Oil Cooler Logistics

[CelicaGT6]

I apologize now for the long read.

----Background info------------

I have a 1990 Toyota Celica with an engine from a 1997 Toyota Avalon. The engine is a 3.0L all aluminum V6.

I took the car to a NASA HPDE event back in october and had a blast at my first track experience. The car handled surprisingly well and the engine provides more than enough power for my current skilly level.

Now I am a bit concerned about the longevity of the engine. It seems that these engines are particularly hard on oil and have a tendency to cause it to sludge/gel which, as you know, causes engine failure. Toyota claims its due to owner negligence and that changing the oil every 3000 miles will make sure that the oil does not gel.

I am having my first used oil analysis(UOA) performed to see how the oil is holding up. I have also been using synthetic since the day I got the car running last summer(engine had 37,000 miles on it). I was using Mobil1 5W-30 but have recently switched to Redline after reading some favorable reports and posts at http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

I plan to track the car probably 2-4 times a year due mostly to financial situations but I need the engine to handle the abuse. Racing is expensive and I am but a senior in college so money is tight.

Additionally, someone I know has blown 2 of these motors driving his car hard. The guy said the mechanic told him " I oil starved the motor with the motor full of oil, they said I had to be pulling some G's to get the oil to one side of the motor to blow it up".

If there is any truth to this, I am concerned about the possibility of doing the same to mine.

----/Background info------------

So I want to setup an oil cooler system. I purchase the following parts already:

-10 fittings and SS braided hose
Tru Cool 24 row plate cooler (5 3/4" x 11" x 1 1/2")
PermaCool remote filter mount
PermaCool 4 port spin on adapter

To Buy:
Permacool Remote Oil Thermostat

My setup will be as follows:

Output from block ---> Oil Filter ---> Thermostat ---> Cooler ---> block

I want to use the 4 port adapter as a way to mount the oil temp and oil pressure senders.

This seems to be an economic way to have a decent cooler without going overboard.

I have a few concerns though:

*Oil pressure: Will the oil pump be able to handle the duty of pumping oil all the way through the cooler system and then up to the head and other parts the engine?
*How will a larger filter affect the flow of oil?
*Drain and Refill: How does one drain all the oil out of the system?
*Will an oil cooler setup cause additional wear on the engine at startup since the oil will have to travel from the pickup, all the way to the filter, and then back to the engine?
*Will the cooler system reduce the overall oil pressure?
*Has anyone bothered to spend the extra money to make sure there are no sharp turns in their oil cooler setup or does it not seem to affect the pressure much?

Any other suggestions, thoughts, ideas regarding oil coolers I should know?

Thanks for your time,

Adrian

 

[ruking77]

..."Racing is expensive and I am but a senior in college so money is tight.

Additionally, someone I know has blown 2 of these motors driving his car hard. The guy said the mechanic told him " I oil starved the motor with the motor full of oil, they said I had to be pulling some G's to get the oil to one side of the motor to blow it up".

If there is any truth to this, I am concerned about the possibility of doing the same to mine."

Not to rain on your parade, but the question is not IF things will break, it is a question of WHEN. So the natural question is when things break will you have the resources to do the repairs or replacement of stuff that will inevitably wear or go wrong and or break. They also tend to go wrong when you least need it or expect it or can ill afford it. If the answer is no problem, then I would say you need to get a logistical support bench stock: ie like spare rotors, brake pads, bleed routine, tires, rims, etc. If the answer is no, I would forgo doing it.

 

[CelicaGT6]

So you are saying if I don't have a spare engine don't bother with the oil cooler? That doesn't make much sense.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by CelicaGT6:

My setup will be as follows:

Output from block --- Oil Filter --- Thermostat --- Cooler --- block

I want to use the 4 port adapter as a way to mount the oil temp and oil pressure senders.

This seems to be an economic way to have a decent cooler without going overboard.

---

This is a pretty standard setup and I doubt you'll have any trouble with it provided you use large enough hose and fittings. -10 will probably be plenty large and standard fittings should be low enough restriction. The larger filter you'll be running might well offset any restriction in the system anyway.

Short of trying to have the filter as the low point, there's not much that can be done to help you drain the system at change time.

I won't comment on spending money to go racing and if it's a good idea or not. I'd have to think about all I've spent this way over the years...

[ May 04, 2004, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[Michael SR]

quote:

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*Oil pressure: Will the oil pump be able to handle the duty of pumping oil all the way through the cooler system and then up to the head and other parts the engine?

---

there will be some pressure loss, the question is how much would you consider to be acceptable. for the system you just described, you might see almost 10psi less pressure at the block.

unless the oiling system has the oil pressure bypass valve outside of the pump and in the block, some engines do that. (very few, though.) even then, the bypass would have to be after the cooling/filter loop, or you'd still see the same pressure drop.

another idea, if that pressure drop isn't acceptable to you, would be to shim the bypass valve for a higher bypass pressure. so if you're seeing a 10psi drop, shim the bypass so the pump outputs 10psi more than stock, and you'll be close to the original pressure.

quote:

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*How will a larger filter affect the flow of oil?

---

if you assume more filter area, then you'll see less pressure drop.

quote:

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*Drain and Refill: How does one drain all the oil out of the system?

---

you want the loop to not drain during normal shutdown, so draining during an oil change is difficult. unless you get a cooler with a drain plug. there are some 3-port coolers where you could mount it such that the 3rd port becomes a drain, i think.

quote:

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*Will an oil cooler setup cause additional wear on the engine at startup since the oil will have to travel from the pickup, all the way to the filter, and then back to the engine?

---

well, you want to set it up so that it doesn't drain everything with the engine off. otherwise every time you start it there's a lag time to fill the whole loop before the engine sees pressure.

if the loop stays filled, pressure on one end will result in basically immediate pressure at the other end.

quote:

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*Has anyone bothered to spend the extra money to make sure there are no sharp turns in their oil cooler setup or does it not seem to affect the pressure much?

---

the usual approach is to oversize such that the bends aren't a big restriction. for instance, if you use -10 hose, a 90-degree hard bend might actually be 3/4" instead of 5/8" like the hose.

but really, -10 everywhere isn't a restriction even with bends. i've seen plenty of racers run that without problems.

-michael