OK everyone, hold onto your hats for this one. I'm over on ToyotaNation, and there's a kid asking about using chlorine bleach (Chlorox) as a radiator flush in a Toyota aluminum block 4-cyl engine! Says a friend did it with good results. Have I just missed this technique over the years, or is this just totally out to lunch? He plans to use a 1:3 mix with water (still an enormously potent brew). When I read his post, the hair on the back of my neck stood up. I have visions of every seal in his engine being oxidized into oblivion and fluids gushing forth into his engine room. . . What say you all???
Bleached Cooling System???
- Thread starter ekpolk
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Yeah, bleach is pretty corrosive stuff. It's actually a very strong base and will eat rubber hoses like crazy. It's also difficult to flush out. In high school chemistry, the teacher had us put a finger in a fairly strong base solution (not strong enough to burn) and rinse it off. It took most of us 5 minutes or more to get it all off (you'll get a soapy, slippery feeling when a base solution is in contact with your skin). Inside of an engine, you'd need to flush with water for quite a long time to get the residue off. If you don't, it'll turn your coolant basic and eat away the rubber and aluminum parts of the system.
Regarding the potency of this brew, your clothes washer uses a cup or less to about 15 gallons of water, or about 1:240. 1:3 is 80 times that strength. I wonder how long before he replaces every hose and gasket that comes in contact with that bleach.
Kestas
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I think only half the story is told. It depends on what you want to flush out - corrosion deposits or oil contamination. Detergent would probably take care of the oil contamination. I don't know if vinegar or bleach would act on the other deposits - maybe. Citric acid is what I've always used.
I'd never use bleach! Chlorine = Pitting is what I was taught in my failure analysis class. I also have personal experience with household bleach pitting a stainless steel bowl until it perforated.
I'd never use bleach! Chlorine = Pitting is what I was taught in my failure analysis class. I also have personal experience with household bleach pitting a stainless steel bowl until it perforated.
Cl in any form in the cooling system just sounds WRONG!!! (Maybe because it IS wrong)
Sodium Hypochlorite bleach will have NaOH (lye)...
Maybe, I mean maybe, some dilute NaOH as a slight etch for aluminum (strong NaOH will RAPIDLY etch the crap out of Al).....nah, just use the comercial Rad cleaners, if at all....
Sodium Hypochlorite bleach will have NaOH (lye)...
Maybe, I mean maybe, some dilute NaOH as a slight etch for aluminum (strong NaOH will RAPIDLY etch the crap out of Al).....nah, just use the comercial Rad cleaners, if at all....
You should only use distilled as a flush and fill with whatever you want to flush with. If you keep up the maintenance there is no reason to use anything other than distilled to flush.
Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, 2.7 Liter , Mobil1 Synthetic SS 5W-30.
ODO 8700 Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner 3.0 V6, Mobil1 Synthetic SS 10W-30.
ODO 85500 Miles.
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer
Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, 2.7 Liter , Mobil1 Synthetic SS 5W-30.
ODO 8700 Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner 3.0 V6, Mobil1 Synthetic SS 10W-30.
ODO 85500 Miles.
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer
Haven't seen any such recommendations in many years but the label on cans of Sani Flush toilet bowl cleaner said to use their product as a very effective radiator cleaner. I believe the product was oxlaic or phosphoric acid. This really worked well but the catch was that it had to be neutralized using a baking soda solution then rinsed with clear water before finally installing the anti-freeze solution. I suspect this worked really well but fell out of favor because of all the steps necessary. Boxes of Washing Soda (sodium carbonate as opposed to sodium bi-carbonate) also mentioned its use as a radiator cleaner. You don't see that product much any more.
In any case, you'd have to be NUTS to use Clorox in your radiator.. Hey muriatic acid (Pool Acid) works too but geez! With all the products out there specifically formulated for the purpose, why chance wrecking your engine with urban legend shade tree mechanicing.
Ed
In any case, you'd have to be NUTS to use Clorox in your radiator.. Hey muriatic acid (Pool Acid) works too but geez! With all the products out there specifically formulated for the purpose, why chance wrecking your engine with urban legend shade tree mechanicing.
Ed
It's not good for aluminum, but it's NaOCl, not NaOH
In solution, it splits into the sodium cation Na+ and the hypochlorite anion ClO
Right - NaOH is sodium hydroxide. Also very bad for your cooling system.
I work as an engineer for a pump manufacture, where we supply municipalities with chemical feed pumps. Hypochlorite at 10% (bleach is like 0.001% I think) will destroy cast iron. With thirty hours of exposure you have pitting that you can measure with a hand ruler. I can't imagine how quickly aluminum would corrode, but I'm sure as Pablo stated, the bleach would significantly etch it.
I work as an engineer for a pump manufacture, where we supply municipalities with chemical feed pumps. Hypochlorite at 10% (bleach is like 0.001% I think) will destroy cast iron. With thirty hours of exposure you have pitting that you can measure with a hand ruler. I can't imagine how quickly aluminum would corrode, but I'm sure as Pablo stated, the bleach would significantly etch it.
I think everyone has said it, but I'll say it again anyways: Ridiculous!
Common household bleach is 5% to 6% Sodium Hypochlorite, depending on the brand.
Pablo, that's some interesting information. Please let Clorox and the other bleach manufactuers know so they can correct their labels and MSDS sheets.
http://www.chemicalland21.com/arokorhi/industrialchem/inorganic/CAUSTIC SODA.htm
Sodium Hydroxide is used for sodium hypochlorite which is used as a household bleach and disinfectant
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question189.htm
http://science.howstuffworks.com/fr...tm&url=http://www.esemag.com/0596/bleach.html
A small excess of sodium hydroxide is required to maintain the pH between 11 and 13 to minimize decomposition.
Just for further education...anything ovet pH 10 will etch aluminum.
Sodium Hydroxide is used for sodium hypochlorite which is used as a household bleach and disinfectant
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question189.htm
http://science.howstuffworks.com/fr...tm&url=http://www.esemag.com/0596/bleach.html
A small excess of sodium hydroxide is required to maintain the pH between 11 and 13 to minimize decomposition.
Just for further education...anything ovet pH 10 will etch aluminum.
Such a small excess remains after the NaOH is converted to NaOCl that the NaOH doesn't make it to the MSDS sheet or the label.
Anyone who is interested in what is in household bleach after it is manufactured can check for theirselves.
XS650...........dude, you missed my point! You really didn't read my post, did you?
Household bleach has NaOH in a water solution with the hypochlorite as a Basic stabilizer...so not only is the -OCl anion bad, so is the -OH.
Both will etch the crap out of Al giving Na and Al compounds....
Household bleach has NaOH in a water solution with the hypochlorite as a Basic stabilizer...so not only is the -OCl anion bad, so is the -OH.
Both will etch the crap out of Al giving Na and Al compounds....
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