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#60961 - 01/01/04 09:36 AM What's the difference btw Flashpoint (COC) and Flashpoint (PMCC)?
Ken4 Offline


Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 917
Loc: Singapore

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#60962 - 01/01/04 05:31 PM Re: What's the difference btw Flashpoint (COC) and Flashpoint (PMCC)?
John K Offline


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 943
Loc: Loveland, Ohio
It has been too long and my memory isn't working right. I went to ASTM and tried a search....but no luck. They are just different methods, one is Open Cup, the other is PM Closed Cup. I'm not much help, I used to know what they stood for! It is hell to get old!

John

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#60963 - 01/01/04 05:54 PM Re: What's the difference btw Flashpoint (COC) and Flashpoint (PMCC)?
John K Offline


Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 943
Loc: Loveland, Ohio
I did another search in Google and came up with this instrument... http://www.sartec.co.uk/grabner.htm

and on a search of 'comparison of flashpoint analysis' came up with this link...
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/labtest.html

Cleveland Open Cup - found what the other C stood for.

PMCT - Pensky-Martens Closed Tester

found these in table of contents from ASTM but did not access the actual methods.

John

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#60964 - 01/02/04 08:06 AM Re: What's the difference btw Flashpoint (COC) and Flashpoint (PMCC)?
labman Offline


Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 8711
Loc: Nothern USA
If you find TOC or TCC that is Taglibue? or some such. It seems nobody can use the same test method as anyone else.

I doubt flash point tells us much about an oil. An oil could have a low flash point due to a small amount of low boiling solvent used to carry in an additive. It would quickly, and harmlessly flash off into the crankcase ventilation. The volume lost would be negligible.

Flash point is more for shipping. You must know it to assure proper handling. Methane, octane, dino oil, and polyethylene differ chemically only by molecular weight, and all burn readily once started. They have vastly different shipping requirements.

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#60965 - 01/01/04 11:30 PM Re: What's the difference btw Flashpoint (COC) and Flashpoint (PMCC)?
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12897
Loc: By Detroit
quote:
Originally posted by labman:
I doubt flash point tells us much about an oil. An oil could have a low flash point due to a small amount of low boiling solvent used to carry in an additive. It would quickly, and harmlessly flash off into the crankcase ventilation. The volume lost would be negligible.

Good point and it may explain why, for instance, Royal Purple 10w40 lists such a poor flash point. I always equated a high flash point with a robust base oil and maybe so, but if your point is the case, then a low flash point is not necessarly an indicator that the oil is not robust.

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#60966 - 01/02/04 07:17 AM Re: What's the difference btw Flashpoint (COC) and Flashpoint (PMCC)?
TC Offline


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 1638
Loc: California
From my NFPA Fire Protection Handbook:

1. Tagliabue "Tag" Closed Tester for liquids with FPs at or below 200F (ASTM D56).

2. Pensky-Martens Closed Tester for liquids with FPs over 200F (ASTM D93).

3. ASTM D3278 (apparently a closed test) is for finishes (paints, enamels, laquers, etc.) with FPs from 32F-230F .

4. Open cup tests (Tag Open Cup - ASTM D1310, and Cleveland Open Cup - ASTM D92) are sometimes used for flammable liquids "in transportation." Open cup flashpoints represent conditions with the liquid in the open and are generally higher than closed cup flashpoint figures for the same substances.

5. For motor oils, the standard consistently used (at least in the U.S.) appears to be COC/ASTM D92.

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