Is liquid dishsoap really harmfull to the paint ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Messages
236
Location
Oceanside NY
This is one thing I have a hard time believing, I washed my truck today & used it & the wax is still there from 3 weeks ago & the truck looks great. If it's safe for washing dishes & it's made to be mild & non toxic enough that some may be consumed by a human if say a glass isnt properly rinsed, then how could it be harmfull to automotive paint jobs ?
Maybe just a rumor started by car wash soap manufacturers ?
confused.gif
 
Eventually it could be, you paint has oils in it and dish soap is designed to remove oils/grease etc. And it will also strip whatever wax you have off every time you use it.
 
Notice how much quicker the water quits beading when you wash your car with dish detergent or go through a car wash. Wax lasts about 1/2 as long in my experience. I detail a few cars in my spare time. Automatic car washes increase my sales by 50%
grin.gif


Oh, I almost forgot to answer your question. NOpe, it doesn't have any effect on paint or clearcoat. It just washes off the wax or sealant you apply to the clearcoat. Remember, clear coat is applied over "all" paint on an automobile.

[ September 20, 2003, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Gebo ]
 
I washed a white car with liquid laundry detergent right before I sold it. It looked awesome!! The optical brighteners (turn UV into bright white) really made the car shine...
 
I have been using Dawn and Ivory dish soap for a lot of years. I have not seen any damage to the paint. I have a 1993 Chev Lumina sedan that has been washed since new with Dawn and the paint looks new. Have not polished/waxed it in a long time (5 yrs?). So I doubt random washing with dish-soap it going to harm most paints.

How bad can it be if its used for cleaning dish's etc.

About the only thing that won't remove polish/wax is plain water, any soap it going to affect it unless you buy those so called waxing soaps. I have tried those before, once and its in the trash can. The only one that seems to be real good is the car wash by Zaino but its very pricey and only comes is small bottles, no economy sizes.

[ September 21, 2003, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]
 
Does it directly damage paint? No, it does not, but it will strip wax, will remove the oils from the paint, and this leads to oxidation, and the reputation of 'dishsoap killing paint'.
 
Well first of all, automotive paint doesn't have oils in it. It's not alive and doesn't need "feeding" or "moisturizing" like some literature would lead you to believe, so you don't have to worry about stripping out what isn't there.

That said, dishwashing or laundry detergent can be pretty hard on a coat of wax, which is all that is standing between your paint and oxidation. It depends on the particular type and formulation of wax that you're using, but a detergent can either totally remove, or at least weaken it. This is especially true of waxes that are mainly formulated (or totally) with carnauba wax, since waxes are like oils/greases. Some quality polymer sealants (like Klasse, Zaino, probably lots others) are almost unaffected by detergents.

Besides this however, I would not use detergent on a car's finish because, unlike a proper car shampoo, household detergents are not designed to provide any lubrication. This is important when you're washing dust and dirt off of your paint, which is pretty delicate. Some people have also reported instances of staining or discolouration with their car's trim (probably depends on the trim's age and material). The fact that detergents are pretty alkaline doesn't help either.

Is it harmful to do a dish detergent wash once in a while? No. In fact, some people do it as a prep stage before a major detail, but I personally don't have a need for it. Sure it might be a "stronger" soap to use than a car shampoo, but you're better off keeping the car reasonably waxed, which aids cleaning, and using a proper auto shampoo. Even the cheapest stuff you can find is preferable, and a big jug of the stuff for less than $10 can last you for years! Most can mix up a gallon of solution with only 1oz... there's no need to cheap out on this one folks.
wink.gif
 
i use it before claying and using a rotary buffer only because it strips all old wax instantly IMO....but after that, only gentle car wash soap
 
Ok, if dish soap takes off wax (not all, by my experience), and laundry soap is usually much more alkaline, in the parts of the world where there is no "car shampoo" (or what might be sold as such is repackaged dish soap), what would be best?
What pH? what "home brew" solution?
 
Anyone have a digital camera { I dont }, & no life like me? Lets see a test, an experiment .
Put a coat of wax on a car's hood, then wash it with a dishsoap like Ivory or Pamolive, dry it then spray it with water to see if it beads.
My $ is on " she'll bead ".
BUT, I bet the wax will last maybe 1/3 longer if washed with carwash.
4DSC is correct about carwash being cheap though but sometimes in a pinch the dishsoap does the job...
smile.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by Dr. T:
I disagree. Paints do contain moisture and breathe since most finishes are porous. That said, any kind of washing WILL dry the paint out and scratch the finish. Even hand washing.

Thank You Dr T.
 
when i washed my car with dishwashing soap..the shine was gone...car was ruff and the water didnt bead...i stopped doing this becuase even though i was taking off the wax....my pin stripes were also comming off faster than normal(fading).

so now i just let the wax dry off until the car isnt smooth again, clay then polish then wax.
 
In the absence of a proper car shampoo, I think maybe you could use something that's "mild"... like baby shampoo or handsoap or something. I suppose maybe you could try something like an oil soap (for wood), but I'm just guessing here since who knows what kind of residues these things might leave behind on the paint?
dunno.gif


quote:

Originally posted by Dr. T:
I disagree. Paints do contain moisture and breathe since most finishes are porous. That said, any kind of washing WILL dry the paint out and scratch the finish. Even hand washing.

I don't know about the porous part, but automotive paint is baked at the factory so there isn't any moisture left in it when it leaves the oven. AFAIK, fully cured automotive paint is a totally dry, inert coating on the metal that just needs protection from the elements. The only time when the paint needs to breathe is if you've just had the car repainted in a bodyshop and you're suggested not to wax it for a given period of time because the low temperature baking they do doesn't harden the finish the way a factory job does. While it's true that washing probably always causes some microscopic damage to the top surface, you can often greatly reduce this to the point where damage is negligible with safe washing media and a good technique. Often someone will ruin his nice finish because he's using a cheap (polyester) washmitt or sponge. Sometimes (if you're lucky) superficial scratching is only limited to the coat of wax or sealant that you have on there too, which is another good reason to keep a car well waxed.

You could test the wax stripping ability of detergent if you'd like, but it really depends on the individual wax you're using. Many waxes these days blend together natural and synthetic waxes, as well as silicone polymers in them, even though they're called "carnauba wax" and don't mention anything about these extra ingredients. Some waxes get stripped by detergent, some get weakened, some shrug it off, so YMMV...

[ September 22, 2003, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: 4DSC ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Dr. T:
...however, I wax it after every wash...

Dude, you are one serious detailer.
shocked.gif
Or do you just wash your car every 6 months?
grin.gif
 
I look more for "lubricity" in my car shampoo. Some have a lot of drag and some are slick as snot. Some make lots of bubbles and some don't bubble much. I know bubbles don't clean, but I sure do like bunches of bubbles. www.auatopia.com for those of us that are anal about our cars.
wink.gif
 
I disagree. Paints do contain moisture and breathe since most finishes are porous. That said, any kind of washing WILL dry the paint out and scratch the finish. Even hand washing.

Now, I don't think that dishwashing soap will damage paint....but it will heighten the dryness and remove a lot or all of the protective wax. Now if you don't ever wax your car, you may not care...however, I wax it after every wash and can tell the difference in the finish when I don't.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gebo:
I look more for "lubricity" in my car shampoo. Some have a lot of drag and some are slick as snot. Some make lots of bubbles and some don't bubble much. I know bubbles don't clean, but I sure do like bunches of bubbles. www.auatopia.com for those of us that are anal about our cars.
wink.gif


Heres the fixed link, www.autopia.org
 
quote:

Originally posted by Scali62:
Anyone have a digital camera { I dont }, & no life like me? Lets see a test, an experiment .
Put a coat of wax on a car's hood, then wash it with a dishsoap like Ivory or Pamolive, dry it then spray it with water to see if it beads.
My $ is on " she'll bead ".
BUT, I bet the wax will last maybe 1/3 longer if washed with carwash.
4DSC is correct about carwash being cheap though but sometimes in a pinch the dishsoap does the job...
smile.gif


ummm no, it wont bead! i had like 15 layers of wax on my car, wanted to strip them all for a fresh buff with rotary. so, needless to say one wash with palmolive (i think) took it ALL away. no shine, made squeeks when i rubbed finger across it.
 
Thanx...no not 6 months...but, at least once / week.

And for the naysayers re: paint breathing...did you ever see what happens to the paint underneath bra's that were left on after rain? This is why it's recommended to remove them when washing and rainfall....(or all together).
 
I think dishwashing soaps contain surfactants(sp?) which are necessary to dissolve/lift grease and oils from dishes.

Thus, they remove some, if not most, waxes too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top