2003 TDI, 161k miles, Delvac 5w40

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I put a lot of miles on this Golf TDI, all but the first 5k with Mobil Delvac 1 5w40 or Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5w40. Recently I decided I would try Elf Evolution 0w30, an extended service oil -- up to 30k miles -- that meets the VW 506.01 specification.

So to get a baseline, I decided to run a UOA on my last fill of Mobil Delvac.
Miles on engine 161,421
Miles on oil 9,566
Wix oil filter

Tested by Oil Analyzers Inc.

Iron 38
Chromium 1
Lead 2
Copper 3
Tin 0
Aluminum 7
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 5
Boron 29
Sodium 0
Magnesium 615
Calcium 2775
Barium 0
Phosphorus 1231
Zinc 1528
Moly 1
all others 0

Fuel < 1
Viscosity @ 100C =15.33
Water 0
Soot 1.2%
Coolant = none

TBN = 7.35
F-Soot =1.28
No corrective action required. Oil is suitable for continued use.

Mostly I've run 10k-miles OCI, went to 12k once, this was just a little shy of 10k.

I'm no expert, but this looks good to me.
 
After looking at other UOA of Delvac in TDI engines...

Iron looks a little bit higher than normal

All other wear metals look good.

Viscosity? Not sure what scale that is on, or if it's a typo.

Soot 1.2% seems okay, though a little higher than some.

The additive packages looks okay for continued use.

Without a history on this car, my guess is that I could have gone another 5k miles with no problem. Maybe more. But the 10k OCI was a good interval.
 
These are excellent overall results....The Fe level is a bit higher as a direct result of the 1.2% soot level. If you were to run biodiesel or ULSD in this engine, both the soot and the rate of iron wear would be reduced. The Al is from the pistons and the plain cam bearings and is very low. Viscosity is in centistokes and for comparison the baseline value is 14.7-15.0 Cst, so there is almost no change. I'd use a lower limit of 4.0 on the TBN value from Oil Analyzers, so there is plenty of margin.

This is only one data point, but you could increase this service interval by 20%-25% easily.

One final note..."F-Soot" is a measurement of soot using FTIR, ie Fourier Transform Infared Radiography, a non-destructive inspection technique.

TS
 
Thanks for your explanations, TS. The think I liked about the 10k OCI with the Mobil 5w40 is that I always felt confident that I could go longer if necessary. UOAs from some of the other diesel-rated 5w40's seemed to show that they were just about worn out at 10k.

I'm still trying to decide how often to sample the Elf Evolution. I'm now thinking of testing every 5k miles -- or about once a month in my case.
 
Tornado Red,

I have posted my UOA just a few post before yours.

I ran Amsoil 5w 40. I ran 9532 miles on it then another 10794 after replacing filter and topping off oil. I use same Wix filter.

Look at my results at 9532 miles compaired to yours. Pretty close in our results. My soot is way lower but for the cost difference, yours would be a better bang for the buck. Not sure how much longer that oil would hold up for another 10K like I ran my Amsoil on.

I am interested in seeing some 0W 30 results. I have always considered going to it...
 
quote:

Originally posted by Rex:
I am interested in seeing some 0W 30 results. I have always considered going to it...

SUNRG has been posting his results with the Elf Evolution 0w30, but mainly just the Fe wear rates. I'll be posting the full UOA, probably at 5k-mile intervals.

I'm hoping the Elf Evolution will stand up for a 20k-mile oil change interval, and maybe give me an extra mile per gallon. It's too soon to estimate whether the fuel economy is better. But with the soot level in this UOA, there's already a big question whether 20k is going to be too long. Cleaner fuel is coming, but not during this OCI.
 
I wouldn't recommend running an SAE 0w-30 with these soot levels...you're bound to see significantly higher Fe and Cr levels.

SUNRG runs biodiesel with has NO sulphur, so his results arent' applicable at all.

TS
 
Very impressive numbers SUNRG. I have always wanted to run the Amsoil 0W30 in these engines but have settled on the 5w40 instead, though I see your running Elf.

Again impressive numbers.. I hope to have my first 10K oil test on the new Amsoil 5w40 formulation in about a month.
 
Too slick, the Elf 506.01 will do fine with soot regardless of fuel for a measly 10k OCI. Granted, with ULSD or biodiesel this oil is easily capable of 25k mile OCIs
 
Drew,

I don't doubt the oil will hold up for at least 10k miles, however the wear rates are directionally higher than I've seen with xw-40 formulations in this motor.

TS
 
I went back to Delvac after trying Elf Evolution 0w30 for 14k miles. The sad story with the Elf 0w30 is here
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=0#Post583403

Here are the latest Delvac results.

First number is Delvac. Second number is Elf at 10.6k. Third is Elf at 14.0k. Fourth is Delvac at 9634 miles.
May 28 -- July 29 -- August 20 -- October 29
161421 -- 172095 -- 175508 -- 185142

Iron 38 -- 96 -- 152 -- 77
Chromium 1 -- 2 -- 3 -- 1
Lead 2 -- 3 -- 6 -- 3
Copper 3 -- 4 -- 5 -- 2
Tin 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
Aluminum 7 -- 7 -- 6 -- 6
Nickel 0 -- 4 -- 0 -- 0
Silver 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
Silicon 5 -- 10 -- 8 -- 5
Boron 29 -- 82 -- 57 -- 34
Sodium 0 -- 0 -- 2 -- 0
Magnesium 615 -- 367 -- 287 -- 582
Calcium 2775 -- 3109 -- 2381 -- 2861
Barium 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
Phosphorus 1231 -- 1133 -- 1108 -- 1422
Zinc 1528 -- 1477 -- 1322 -- 1712
Moly 1 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0
all others 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0

Fuel Viscosity @ 100C =15.33 -- 11.39 -- 11.52 -- 16.05
Water 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
Soot 1.2% -- 1.6% -- 1.9% -- 1.4
Coolant = none -- none -- none -- none

TBN = 7.35 -- 6.52 -- 6.32 -- 7.44

Almost identical to the original Delvac UOA, except for the iron. I used a Pela to suck out as much of the old oil as I could, but there had to be 0.5-0.7 liters hiding in the engine, and that could be the source of the iron.

My next oil change will be just prior to a Christmas roadtrip, at which point there will only be 9k miles on the oil. If the iron is back down to 30-40 ppm, I will stick with the 10k OCI with the Delvac and may skip the UOA testing until early next summer.
 
Tornado Red just in case no one ever told you.

40 weight = 12.50 - 16.29 cSt @ 100*C

I dont know exactly what Delvac 1 starts at but I would say thats pretty close to Virgin Viscosity on the first run.
It might be thickening just a tad on the last run from oxidation.
 
Quote:


Tornado Red just in case no one ever told you.

40 weight = 12.50 - 16.29 cSt @ 100*C

I dont know exactly what Delvac 1 starts at but I would say thats pretty close to Virgin Viscosity on the first run.
It might be thickening just a tad on the last run from oxidation.



Good point -- it thickened to borderline 50-weight. I'll be changing again before Christmas at about 9500 miles, but won't see the UOA results til I get back on or about Jan 8th.
 
A new UOA result. Everything seems to have returned to normal, finally.

First number is Delvac. Second number is Elf at 10.6k. Third is the same Elf at 14.0k. Fourth is Delvac at 9.6k. Fifth is Delvac at 9.8k.
May 28 -- July 29 -- August 20 -- October 29 -- Dec 22
161421 -- 172095 -- 175508 -- 185142 -- 194915

Iron 38 -- 96 -- 152 -- 77 -- 41
Chromium 1 -- 2 -- 3 -- 1 -- 1
Lead 2 -- 3 -- 6 -- 3 -- 3
Copper 3 -- 4 -- 5 -- 2 -- 2
Tin 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
Aluminum 7 -- 7 -- 6 -- 6 -- 5
Nickel 0 -- 4 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
Silver 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
Silicon 5 -- 10 -- 8 -- 5 -- 1
Boron 29 -- 82 -- 57 -- 34 -- 29
Sodium 0 -- 0 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0
Magnesium 615 -- 367 -- 287 -- 582 -- 491
Calcium 2775 -- 3109 -- 2381 -- 2861 -- 2346
Barium 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
Phosphorus 1231 -- 1133 -- 1108 -- 1422 -- 1256
Zinc 1528 -- 1477 -- 1322 -- 1712 -- 1577
Moly 1 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 1
all others 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0

Fuel Viscosity @ 100C =15.33 -- 11.39 -- 11.52 -- 16.05 -- 16.33
Water 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
Soot 1.28% -- 1.64% -- 1.94% -- 1.47% -- 1.25%
Coolant = none -- none -- none -- none -- none

TBN = 7.35 -- 6.52 -- 6.32 -- 7.44 -- 5.42

Filter was Wix, as always. I think there was maybe 1/4 quart of make-up oil. Driving pattern was my normal 200-250 miles/day, a mix of city and highway. There were no long highway trips.

The viscosity again seems pretty high, the soot is still pretty high, but the wear metals are pretty much back to normal.

The injector nozzles have about 150k miles on them, so I will be upgrading with some new ones this weekend. Maybe it will improve the combustion efficiency and reduce the soot? I think I will skip a UO test on the next oil change, then test again at 215k miles.
 
Glad to see things back to normal. No more sub-12cSt oils for you, eh?
 
Quote:


Glad to see things back to normal. No more sub-12cSt oils for you, eh?



There were too many possible explanations for what went wrong, but I went back to Delvac 5w40 because I knew it had worked very well for me in the past. What I found out is that, for my driving pattern, Delvac works well with a 10k-mile oil change interval. Some folks can run it to 15k, some folks can run a 0w30 to 15k. But that's just not the way I drive. And at this point I am not sure a secondary bypass filter would be worthwhile.
 
TR,

There is only ONE explanation for what went wrong...

You can't run a very low viscosity diesel oil in an engine with high soot levels, no matter how robust the additive chemistry is. That's the "take home" lesson and it's a very simple one....

Ted
 
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