03 TDI, Amsoil AMO 10w-40, 19,235 miles

[The Critic]

Very interesting UOA.

Setup is Amsoil TS Air Filter, with Mann Cartridge Oil Filter, and BE-90 Bypass Filter. 1/2 quart make-up oil, no filter changes, and mostly highway driving.

Lab suggested changing oil and filters.

My take: IMO, the Al, Fe, Cr, Ni, and Na are all elevated because of some dirt ingestion. The dirt is possibly depleting the TBN, bumping up the viscosity, and raising the Nitration levels. The Si is probably low because the Bypass Filter is filtering out the dirt, but the presence of the Ni, and the elevated Al, Fe, Cr, and Na levels IMO indicate some type of dirt ingestion.

Car is currently running Amsoil AFL 5w-40 with the Mann Cartridge Oil Filter but NO bypass. The stock paper air filter has been reinstalled, and a sample will be taken within 5000 miles.

Again, this is Michael Wan posting for Michael Sparks.

Michael

 

[Gary Allan]

That Fe is way out of whack with the other elements, Michael. Although there appears to be data that suggests dirt injestion, the accompanying elements appear much less effected than Fe.


I don't think that a bypass will mask wear elements. It only filters out the big chunks ..not the real small ones. I would like to see a particle count on this. You would probably see very few big chunks ..yet the figures would still be what they are

 

[The Critic]

Correction: BE-100 Bypass filter was used, NOT BE-90.

Michael

 

[msparks]

On thing is I think the bypass was plugged, it wasn't even getting warm after a 30 mile drive at 90 degree's. Even the lines were luke warm. In this weather you shouldn't be able to put your hand on it.

I'm guessing I should have changed out the by-pass filter around 10,000-20,000.

 

[msparks]

I just removed the entire by-pass setup, as I"m getting ready to sell the car in the fall. I checked out the restrictor as I thought it might be stopped up but it was fine. I cut open the filter but all I saw was black oil. LOL

 

[TooSlick]

I think the issue all along here has been the performance of the air filter. It may be deforming and allowing unfiltered air into the engine.

 

[Pablo]

you could be right, but bag the AMO, nonetheless

 

[Pablo]

I think I warned you - the old tech 10W-40 is not up to 2005 snuff, IMHO. Fe is the only metal that is whacked (rare is Cr over 10 ppm, though) - I supposed no long term harm done.

I just don't use this oil anymore. The 5W-40 AFL seems to be so much better.

So any logic on your filter theory?

 

[Randes]

I've been using Amsoil 5w-40 im my 2003 Jetta TDI for the last couple of 12,000 mile OCI's and analysis show my iron way over 100 as well. I think I'm going to switch back to the 15w-40

 

[The Critic]

quote:

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Originally posted by Randes:
I've been using Amsoil 5w-40 im my 2003 Jetta TDI for the last couple of 12,000 mile OCI's and analysis show my iron way over 100 as well. I think I'm going to switch back to the 15w-40

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Actually, I'd be tempted to give the 0w-30 a re run...but thats just me and my thinner is better issue.

Michael

 

[Pablo]

Randes - did you post a UOA?

 

[TexasTDI]

quote:

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Originally posted by Randes:
I've been using Amsoil 5w-40 im my 2003 Jetta TDI for the last couple of 12,000 mile OCI's and analysis show my iron way over 100 as well. I think I'm going to switch back to the 15w-40

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I ran Amsoil's full synthetic AME 15w-40 year round in my UPsolute chipped 2000 Golf TDI with great results. And it doesn't even get as hot in East Texas as it does in Phoenix.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
why is this oil SO VISCOUS?

Frankly I do not see too much wrong with this report/performance. I would have done a UOA at six months and trashed the oil with FE at 130ppm

Gary Allan said;
"I don't think that a bypass will mask wear elements."

In my experience a bypass (or a centrifuge seperator) will not mask wear elements

Regards
Doug

 

[TooSlick]

This 10w-40 is considered a "light duty" diesel oil, despite the CI-4 rating.

I'd run the Series 3000, 5w-30, the 10w-30/ACD or the 15w-40/AME in this application. All those are HD diesel oils and work well here.

Tooslick

 

[TooSlick]

Note the very high levels of Fe/Cr/Ni in these analyses.

That's the tipoff that you are ingesting large amounts of dirt into the engine. It's the signature for stainless steel; coming from the intake and exhaust valve stems....

The soot level isn't nearly high enough to cause this much ring/cylinder wear. In addition, I've see numerous analyses of this engine/oil combo that show 20-30 ppm of Fe after 10k miles - without a bypass filter installed. So these numbers are WAY out of wack.

TS

 

[SUNRG]

quote:

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Gary Allan said;
"I don't think that a bypass will mask wear elements."

In my experience a bypass (or a centrifuge seperator) will not mask wear elements

Regards
Doug [/QB]

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as long as you're comparing bypass UOAs with bypass UOAs you're fine.

if comparing a UOA from a OEM TDI (4.5L OC volume) with a UOA from a bypass filtered TDI (5.5L OC volume) you should account for the 22% increase in oil volume. it is not that the bypass is "masking" wear, but the relationship between particle count and oil volume should be considered.

if interested, below is an excerpt from a post of mine comparing OEM to Bypass UOAs from TDI club:

quote:

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Also, if comparing an OEM filtered TDI with an OEM + BE-90 filtered TDI, since the oil capacity is increased by 22% (4.5 liters OEM, 5.5 liters BE-90) the BE-90 wear metal values should be increased by 22% (for the purpose of maintaining an apples to apples comparison).

The number of liters establishes a ratio between particle contaminant level and oil volume, for example:
29 ppm Fe * 4.5 ratio (liters) = 130.5
29 ppm Fe * 5.5 ratio (liters) = 159.5 (= 22% more wear particles)
If the engines are the same (PD-TDIs), and the particle count is the same (both 29ppm), and the OCI is the same, but A is OEM filtered and B adds a BE-90 (extra liter of oil) then engine B actually produced 22% more wear metals.

When representing this as a wear rate, we say for example 5.8ppm / 1000 miles, but what is implicit in this is "based on a 4.5 liter oil capacity". When the system capacity is changed to 5.5 liters, to maintain an apples to apples comparison, the BE-90 wear metal value must first be increased by 22%...
OEM 29ppm / 5 (5k miles) = 5.8ppm / 1000 miles / 4.5 liters
BYP 29ppm * 1.22= 35.38ppm / 5 (5k miles) = 7.1ppm / 1000 miles / 4.5 liters
This is one of the reasons why even during short OCIs, bypass wear metal numbers on average are lower than OEM filtered. Even if there was no filter at all in the BE-90, the extra liter of oil would drop the wear metal particle counts in a UOA (compared to a 4.5 liter system).

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