Amsoil Series 2000 0w30 TDI

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msparks

msparks

Joined
Jun 11, 2002
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3,351
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
Here is my sample of on the TDI with 10,000 miles on the oil and 21000 on the engine.

Test was completed by CTC analytical Services.

I put a by-pass filter on at the 10K mark running an Amsoil Single remote system with a BE 100 with the oil return going to the drain plug.

This is the Gasoline engine oil Series 2000 0w30. I had no additional oil added and no filter changes for the 10,000 miles. I'm especially happy with the soot reading for this car. Looks like everything is doing good.

  • Iron 54
  • Chrome 5
  • Lead 2
  • Copper 9
  • Tin 0
  • Alum 5
  • Nickel 0
  • Silver 0
  • Silicon 7
  • Boron 16
  • Sodium 0
  • Mag 843
  • Calcium 2484
  • Barium 0
  • PH 1173
  • ZN 1359
  • Moly 0
  • Titanium 0
  • Vanadium 0
  • Potassium 0
  • Fuel >1
  • Vis100 12.40
  • Water 0
  • Soot .45
  • Gly Neg
  • Nitr 13
  • Oxd 15
  • TN 8.22

BTW, I'm also using the Amsoil Two stage foam air filter. Notice the super low Silicon numbers!!!

No corrective action oil is suitable for continued use.

[ January 06, 2004, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: msparks ]
 
You are braver than I am running a CF rated oil in this engine, and I also just realized that Mobil I meets the CF rating also. So am I to deduce that the hype on only 5W40 synthetic CI requirement by VW is out the window, or you just have a more exploratory nature in your choice of oils than I do? Also 5.4 PPM of iron per thousand miles looks better than your number of .0054 per mile.

dunno.gif


[ January 06, 2004, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by toyvwbenz:
I have a few questions if you don't mind.

How's your fuel economy? Usually 43 city and 49-52 highway@ around 75-80mph

Automatic or standard? standard

Whats the driving style?
I drive agressive, wife drives pokey wife does most of city to and from work, I usually drive on the highway or if we go off together


Are you using any fuel additives?
I use Texaco premium Diesel minimum 45 cetane. I usually use Amsoil cetane boost 3oz per tank and 3 oz of Amsoil Diesel Modifier Concentrate

Are you using the OEM fuel filter?
Yes still on the original OEM filter. Probably need to change it soon.

What oils did you use previously?

0-5000 miles OEM
5-10,000 miles Amsoil 10w40
10,000- Amsoil 0w30

Click to expand...
 
This oil meets VW 502/505 and ACEA "A3/B3/B4",which are the most relevant specs for a high speed, automotive diesel engine. There are hundreds of thousands of diesels running all over Europe using these types of oils ...

Mike,

Given this engine/oil combo and the bypass filter, your iron and chrome levels should be approx 40%-60% lower. Bearing wear is very low, so the oil is not too thin for this application.

I think you have a serious air leak, despite the silicon concentration. The bypass filter will remove any ingested silicon/alumina particles once they work their way past the piston rings. The equilibrium silicon/aluminum levels will always remain low with this setup and can be deceiving.

Whenever I see someone using an aftermarket air filter and generating excessive piston ring wear, I always suspect that first as the source of the problem. I've used the Amsoil filters for years and they work well, but they have to fit correctly in the housing to be effective. I'd go back to the OEM paper air filter,look for leaks downstream of it and check the CCV system to see if you are sucking in unfiltered air....

The oil is still in excellent shape to go another 10k miles, but you need to stop adding abrasive particles to it.... Your soot concentration of 0.45% is very low, so that's clearly not the cause of this abnormal wear.

TS
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
This oil meets VW 502/505 and ACEA "A3/B3/B4",which are the most relevant specs for a high speed, automotive diesel engine. There are hundreds of thousands of diesels running all over Europe using these types of oils ...

Mike,

Given this engine/oil combo and the bypass filter, your iron and chrome levels should be approx 40%-60% lower. Bearing wear is very low, so the oil is not too thin for this application.

TS
Click to expand...
What about breakin of the engine at this point. I'm wondering if some of the Iron wear is due to that? I'll go back to the Paper first to see how that does and retest in 6 months.
 
I am just curious. Since the S3000 5W30 HDD and the S2000 0W30 are the same price, why not just run the diesel specific 5W30 HDD?
 
'Kule,

The TDI has a direct acting camshaft, a fairly radical, high lift cam lobe profile, and very stiff valve springs. This combination results in high pressures and frictional losses in the valvetrain. Mike and I have talked about this application and felt that since the S2000 was highly friction modified, it would provide tangible benefits in this motor. The Four Ball Wear test scars are approx 10% smaller for the S2000 than for the S3000, due to the borate esters in the 0w-30. The 0w-30 also uses about 10% higher levels of ZDDP, 1200/1500 ppm, vs 1100/1300 for HDD.

There was also a recent SAE paper that detailed the benefits of borate friction modifiers, in the 2.2L, GM diesel engine. I believe the work was done at the University of Michigan? This paper came out after our discussion and confirmed my ideas to some degree.

As you can see, Mike and I tend to pencil whip these things to death ...
wink.gif
 
I have a few questions if you don't mind.

How's your fuel economy?

Automatic or standard?

Whats the driving style?

Are you using any fuel additives?

Are you using the OEM fuel filter?

What oils did you use previously?
 
This engine uses the German Engineered Glyco bearings made by Federal Mogul which are sputter coated which is an advanced technology used in all VW , Audi , BMW , Opel and other makes over the old tri-layer designs .

These German made engines are the stuff
cool.gif
 
It takes about 20,000 miles for the wear rates to stabilize on the TDI engine, and for this motor to generate the most power and fuel efficiency. One of the main reasons I recommended this oil was to maximize fuel efficiency, by running a highly friction modified 0w-30, instead of a 5w-40 or 10w-40, non-friction modified diesel oil.

VW/Audi have gone to VW 503/506 rated, 0w-30 oils as the factory fill on many of their European engines with the same intent of optimizing fuel efficiency. So I think that Mike and I are on the right track here ...

The TDI engine will far outlast the rest of the vehicle, regardless of if you run 0w-30 or 15w-40. So I think it makes the most sense to try and get the best subjective engine performance, turbo response, power, etc out of the motor, particularly in cold climates. People mod the **** out of these engines - which will profoundly affect durability, then debate whether to run 5w-30 or 5w-40. It really makes no technical sense at all!
nono.gif


I've run this engine/oil combo before with a bypass filter and seen 21 ppm of Fe and 1 ppm of Cr after 10k miles on a high mileage TDI engine. This motor only has 20k miles and due to the use of Amsoil from the start, may not even be "broken in" yet ....I expect these wear rates will continue to drop.

Tooslick
dixie_synthetics

[ February 15, 2004, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by msparks:
Iron is fine for this engine.

If you break it down to PPM per 1000 miles you have iron wear of .0054 ppm.
Click to expand...
Nope, but yes.
numbers look not right... BUT Diesel Iron levels are about 1/2 of Gasoline. Still with a level of 100 as abnormal, you are still in the "safe" range

looks nice
 
Robbie,

You should stick to things that you know ...
wink.gif


Iron wear rates in VW diesel engines are approx 50%-100% higher than for similar sized VW/Audi gas engines....For example, I had only 8 ppm of iron after a 5500 mile run in my 225 Hp, 1.8L Audi TT turbo engine.

A VW diesel engine only has a 5 quart sump - the same as my gas engine - and the EGR equipped TDI engine generates a considerable amount of soot, which is the main cause of the increased iron wear. In addition, the VW diesels use a more radical cam lobe profile and a stiffer valve spring. Combine this with low rpm operation and there is significantly more valvetrain wear in the little diesels.

Ted
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Robbie,

You should stick to things that you know ...
wink.gif



Ted
Click to expand...
Speaking of
smile.gif
...... the chromium from the very high tension ring set used in this engine to control the cylinder pressure along with the Fe very well could be due to the low viscosity oil used .

These engines do best on the correct 40wt motor oil .
 
Motorbike,

That's an interesting theory, until you look at all the hundreds of thousands of TDI's running around all over Europe with 0w-30 and 5w-30 oils in them ....

The newer, VW 503/506 rated oils are even thinner - about 10.0-11.0 Cst @ 100C in most cases, with HT/HS in the 3.0-3.3 Cp range .... These are still very high compression engines with "stiff" rings ....

Ted
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Robbie,

You should stick to things that you know ...
wink.gif

---
I do bucko!
When I don't know something I say so, and when I'm corrected, I admit it that I was wrong.

Diesel Iron levels are about 1/2 of Gasoline. To be Abnormal Irons level will be 100 and to be abnormal gasoline is 250. Severe on Iron is 250 as a flag and gasoline is 400.

Don't mean to step on you little bunny tail...

Yes, you may know more on a lot of issues than I do, but none the less the answer I gave is correct. For the levels he posted, they are UNDER a flag for abnormal wear.
----------
-----------


Iron wear rates in VW diesel engines are approx 50%-100% higher than for similar sized VW/Audi gas engines....For example, I had only 8 ppm of iron after a 5500 mile run in my 225 Hp, 1.8L Audi TT turbo engine.

A VW diesel engine only has a 5 quart sump - the same as my gas engine - and the EGR equipped TDI engine generates a considerable amount of soot, which is the main cause of the increased iron wear. In addition, the VW diesels use a more radical cam lobe profile and a stiffer valve spring. Combine this with low rpm operation and there is significantly more valvetrain wear in the little diesels.

Ted
Click to expand...
That last part I still dont understand.
None the less you don't have to jump all over me about it. You got a problem with me, then e-mail me. But don't try to make yourself look all that good, and knowledgable, when I could find every little detail I see and nit pick... But if you wanna
itschy.gif
then lets rumble dude!
 
Robbie,

The condemnation limits are set lower on commercial diesel engines due to their very large sumps. If you have a Series 60 Detroit, with a 12-14 gallon sump and you have 100 ppm of iron, thats a lot more total metal than 100 ppm of iron in a gas engine V-8 with a 1.25 gallon sump. For example, the 5.9L Cummins diesel engine in the Dodge pickups always looks like it's wearing great, but a 5.9L gas engine in a truck will only have 40%-50% of the sump capacity of the Cummins. So it's an apples to oranges comparison ....

For this particular engine, anything over 50 ppm in 10,000 miles is pretty high. Iron levels in newer TDI diesels tend to be in the 30-50 ppm range after 10k miles. This engine is still quite new, however, so the wear pattern should settle down...

I grew up in New York, so it would be almost impossible for a nice southern gentleman from Houston to offend me. You should hear the conversation at the dinner table, during the holidays when I go back home...
wink.gif


Ted
 
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