Schaeffers 7000 15w-40 in a VW TDI

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Just as I promised here are my TDI results using Schaeffer's 7000 15w-40. This vehicle is a daily driver (2500 miles a month) used for 90% highway at or over the posted speed limit of 70 mph. OEM filters. Only modification is to the EGR duty cycle. No make-up oil. No oil additives. Schaeffer's Soy Shield diesel treatment at a 1 oz per 3 gallons ratio.

Dyson Analysis

Customer Name : Neil Womack
Oil Brand/Weight : Schaeffers 7000 15w-40
Type Equipment : VW Golf TDI 2003
Miles/Hours on oil : 4770
Total Miles/Hours : 10246

Results ppm/%
Wear
Copper 3
Iron 18
Chromium 1
Lead 1
Aluminum 4
Silicon 4
Tin 1

Additives
Moly 83
Sodium 3
Magnesium 15
Zinc 1286
Potassium 0
Phosphorus 1132
Calcium 3272

Physical Properties
Water negative
Fuel negative scale negative,trace,positive
Antifreeze negative
Soot/solids 0 NONE !
Oxidation 35 scale 0-199 17%
Nitration 15 scale 0-199 7.5%
Sulfur 33
TBN 6
Vis@100 C (cSt) 13.8 perfect SAE 40w starts at 14 -16 cSt by tech
sheet
TAN na


edited to remove Terry's comments


What do you think?

[ July 10, 2003, 04:51 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 
To see that soot reading (the main oil chjange factor in diesels) at zero is a testament to fuel additives... I use one every to every other tank, but Ill make sure Im addng every time, and will have to try the schaefers in my 83 300D EGR equipped turbodiesel...

Analysis numbers look great, I wouldnt worry much, or count these numbers much, because of the breakin factor. That said, even for non-breakin they are fine numbers at that mileage duty on the oil, considering the heavy iron nature of diesel engines.

JMH
 
Report looks great!

I edited out Terry's comments, as I know he doesn't approve of people posting them here, and I ask others not to post his comments either, out of respect for his wishes. Thanks.
 
I guess this kinda puts the issue of the TDI can't use anything but a synth oil to rest. The oil used in this analysis is the Schaeffers #700 SUPREME 7000 SAE 15W-40 which is a blend and not anywhere near a full synth. Based on this report, I see no evidence of it sludging or even breaking down due to the high speed turbo that Andy H was claiming would destroy the Schaeffers oil and stating for a fact that only full synths would hold up based on his statements in this last thread.. New VW TDI which oil
 
Looking back, maybe you should tell us more about your modification to the egr duty cycle... That could have a big effect upo the heat and soot load on the engine.
Dewspite that, the wear numbers are great, so cant go wrong!

JMH
 
quote:

Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
I guess this kinda puts the issue of the TDI can't use anything but a synth oil to rest.

Only 5000 miles on the oil and the TBN is already down to 6. Do you think this oil could last the 10k miles VW recommends? I've seen full synthetic UOA with 10k miles on the oil and the TBN is still at least 10.

The TDI is shipped with full synthetic oil in the crankcase from the factory for a reason.

VW says to only use a full synthetic oil in the MK4 TDI motor because the oil rings are much closer to the top of the piston than other diesel motors. And dino oil can't take the heat. Leading to coking or the rings and scoring of the cylinders.

It's your motor. Do what you want to. But I plan on my TDI lasting as long as possible. So I'm only using full synthetic oil. And at only $15.75 a gallon, Amsoil 15w-40 full synthetic is very affordable. Especially at 10k oil changes.
 
quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
Looking back, maybe you should tell us more about your modification to the egr duty cycle... That could have a big effect upo the heat and soot load on the engine.

He's reduced the EGR cycle so it doesn't open up as much as it normally would. So less sooty exhaust is entering the intake. It's done to help prevent the EGR and intake from clogging up. A very common problem in the TDI motor.
 
And with only 10,246 miles on the car, I'd expect the iron to come down with subsequent uses of this oil.
wink.gif


--- Bror Jace
 
The oil from this analysis started with a TBN of 10. I'm unsure if the Schaeffer's now in the crankcase is the 10 or 12 TBN version.
 
Only 5000 miles on the oil and the TBN is already down to 6. Do you think this oil could last the 10k miles VW recommends? Yes, I see no problems with it continuing to 10k. This engine is a pussy cat on oil. I've seen full synthetic UOA with 10k miles on the oil and the TBN is still at least 10. I'm sure this would also except remember there are several things at play here...One, from one analysis company to another, TBN will not read the same in general as there are different tests and many seem not to always coincide with each other, therefore I don't take a lot of stock in Tbn as a whole but as part of the reading. The other thing to remember is that the Schaeffers oil is having to overtake the previous so called synth oil from the factory and with an oil cooler in line, there's no way that you can purge out the previous oil completely and that my friend can cause the new oil to deplete it's tbn due to having to clean up the acids left from the prev oil from the factory.

The TDI is shipped with full synthetic oil in the crankcase from the factory for a reason. Yep, as they don't trust standard otc dino oil. Obviously full synth isn't the issue as we all seem to know that castrol isn't a full true synth by definition and compared to amsoil correct? So out the window that goes it's got to be a full synth. It should say a full synth or something similar to a full synth like castrol in this case.

VW says to only use a full synthetic oil in the MK4 TDI motor because the oil rings are much closer to the top of the piston than other diesel motors. And dino oil can't take the heat. Leading to coking or the rings and scoring of the cylinders. That for the most part is true about OTC oils, as pointed out to Mr Andy H & now you, this is no ORDINARY dino oil you're up against in this discussion. This is a SPECIALIZED BLEND oil, NOT dino, designed with diesel engines in mind. You have to understand that VW wants to eliminate anyone from putting just any abc brand dino oil in as they have experienced this problem with many I'm sure, so a blanket comment such as that is just a CYA type of statement.

It's your motor. Do what you want to. But I plan on my TDI lasting as long as possible. So I'm only using full synthetic oil. And at only $15.75 a gallon, Amsoil 15w-40 full synthetic is very affordable. Especially at 10k oil changes. Well, it's nice to see he has that right. Actually TDI, you should understand that two things exist here... One is that I don't think you're going to find with any analysis, amsoil delvac or what ever else you want(castrol),that will have performed any better. As a point this analysis shows right in line with any full synth you may have. I'm very interested in where you see a problem where this analysis shows this oil can't take the heat, Leading to coking or the rings and scoring of the cylinders thus what makes you think seeing this that this engine won't last? . Thanks. Bob [/QB][/QUOTE]
 
TX TDI, no argument with the quality of the oil you recommend in this engine.

I must say in all fairness that the Amsoil AME 15w-40 PAO based product would show similar TBN depletion in equivalent miles on the same engine.

You are correct about the soot issue, in this case 0 soot is just about unheard of in a engine with 10,000+ miles.

So the ring seal and solvency of the Schaeffer lubricant is superior with no sign of coking on any level.

Both are well formulated oils and these engines require a two pronged anti-soot campaign on the fuel side and lube side to keep clean !

Michael Sparks ( AMSOIL SITE SUPPORTER and good friend) posted an analysis of his new TDI about 3 years ago showing Petro Canada DURON XL 0w-30( a group III based oil) in action and if I could find it would post a 10,000 mile interval using that oil. If I remember accurately the engine was quite new and posted 1.1 % soot level in that interval. I love how Michael tests to show the effficacy of the Amsoil products and tells his customers what he knows not just reads !


Point is the soot production in these engines is gross and 5000 miles should show something, EGR tricked or not.

[ July 10, 2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]
 
With only 10k miles on the motor, it's no where near broken in yet. It's way too soon to say one way or the other how well this oil will protect later on down the road. Maybe it'll do well, maybe it won't. Only time will tell.
 
Why do little TDI or CDI diesel need 15W40? Is there a lot more soot dispersion ability or is the viscosity needed to run a fuel pump or other mechanical aspect? It seems like an oil like HDD 5W30 could give much better fuel economy if it could be used instead. I'm not recomending he switch, just curious is all.

Joe
 
mirou, the TDI doesn't require a 15W-40. It actually calls for a 5W-40. I don't see any problem with Neil or TexTDI using their 15W-40 in their warm climates though. As for fuel economy, I have used several different viscosities in my TDI over the past 4 years and I have not noticed much if any difference in fuel economy between a 15W-40 and a 0W-30. The most noticeable difference in fuel economy comes from the change between winter diesel to summer diesel. The oil viscosity hasn't made much difference at all. I'm still proud to report my 50+ MPG.
 
I was wondering about that cause 10W40 has had a bad effect on my mpg on a toyota gasser. I guess diesels have more efficient oil systems. Boy, I wish my Passat had a TDI option last year.

Joe
 
quote:

Originally posted by mirou:
Why do little TDI or CDI diesel need 15W40? Is there a lot more soot dispersion ability or is the viscosity needed to run a fuel pump or other mechanical aspect? It seems like an oil like HDD 5W30 could give much better fuel economy if it could be used instead. I'm not recomending he switch, just curious is all.

I noticed no change in fuel mileage going from a synthetic 5w-40 (what VW recommends) to synthetic Amsoil 15w-40. Amsoil recommends their 15w-40 for climates were the outside temp doesn't fall below 5F. My winters never get below 20F, and my summers are always around 100F with the heat index as high as 115F. So I'm safe to use it year round. I obviously don't need the cold cranking properties of a 5w-XX or 10w-XX oil. Also, 15w-40 is less expensive than 10w-40 and 5w-30.

Amsoil claims an average 3% gain in fuel economy using their Series 3000 5w-30. But it's $10 more per gallon than Amsoil 15w-40. Effectively voiding any money saved by the increased fuel mileage.
 
Neil

About time for another analysis?

If not, get out and drive some more! I want more data
grin.gif


Tim
 
Tim

I order most of my Schaeffer's from Bob taking advantage of the jobber price and free delivery.
offtopic.gif

Almost time for my Christmas order.

Giving oil is OK for Christmas isn't it. After all wasn't one of the Wise men packing oil?

Just wondering which anniversary is the oil anniversary?
 
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