VW Passat TDI Rotella T Synthetic

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Dec 8, 2002
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143
Location
San Antonio
'96 VW Passat TDI 91777 miles
Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40, 9000 miles on oil
Stock engine, Oilguard bypass filter, OEM full-flow, OEM air filter
No filter changes during period
Primarily two 10-18 mile trips per day, 60-80 mph
Used 1 quart of oil, primarily crankcase breather
LAB: Oilmaster Oil Analysis June, 2002

code:



Aluminum 9

Chrome 28

Copper 13

Iron 55

Lead 5

Tin 5

Silicon 17

Potassium 10

Sodium 3

Water
Oxidation 14.0

Visc@100C 14.0

Glycol 0

Fuel
TBN 8.2

SAE
Soot 1.5


What says the jury?

Andy
 
Yikes!-Holy Piston Rings (Cr) Batman
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. Yet the Pb is excellent. The silicon is higher but not to the extent I would think to produce the Iron/Cr readings. Do you have a piston slap?? BTW-I'm not an expert in this area.

I'm interested in this report because I'm planning on using this oil next in My Toy Gasoline Truck. Thanks
 
Yeah, the FE and Chrome bothered me a bit as well. This fill started in Srn Illinois in January, and ran thru the move to San Antonio and the South Texas summer.

The current fill is AMSOIL 15W-40 Diesel/marine, which has 5600 miles in it. I'm looking forward to comparing the numbers.

I was the second owner, it had a good history until 70K when I bought it. It runs strong, mileage is 40-42. Others with same model are getting higher mileage, tho.

The next fill will be Amsoil 5W-30, and I'm very close to swapping the Oilguard for an Amsoil bypass.

Thanks for the look!
Andy

[ December 09, 2002, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Andy H ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Toy4x4:
Andy H,
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Why are you switching out the Oilguard? Any problems/concerns?


An Amsoil Dealer running a competive product doesn't fare well with big Al.
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59 Vetteman,

I'm pretty sure Al not only doesn't know who I am, but would sleep pretty well at night even if I filtered with a box of kleenex.
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(Or...I'm in the military for the right to use anyone's bypass I choose?)

No problems with the Oilguard at all. The 96 TDI is a soot monster compared to the newer VWs and the AMSOIL filter has proven to do a better job with soot, as well as giving me the option of a larger filter for more dilution.

I've been waiting for the results of a bypass showdown on Fred's TDI club, but life has gotten in the way of good science again.

Andy
 
Jay,

I think it's Oilmaster's way of saying 'viscosity change'. I could easily be wrong, tho.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Andy H:


I'm pretty sure Al not only doesn't know who I am, but would sleep pretty well at night even if I filtered with a box of kleenex.
smile.gif


Andy,

I have paid my $20 to Big Al for to many years, and will expire this month for good. I had an Oil Guard bypass on my truck. It sure is a messy job trying to unscrew that ball of cotton. The Amsoil filters are a snap to change if you can mount them vertical.
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I gave Uncle Sam 25 years before I decided I needed a new career.
 
'Morning,

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I'm one year away from my latest career change. The Air Force has been great, but it's time for the next challenge. Something like fishing.
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I have my Oilguard mounted right behind the rad. When I spin-off the cover of the filter, I can lower it into the nest of coolant hoses and it will sit there and catch the drips...well, most of them. If I skip the latex glove, tho, the soot stays under my finger nails for a few days.
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Andy,

Earlier TDI's that used 15w-40 petroleum oils for an extended period tended to develop stuck piston rings and clogged EGR valves. This is one of the primary reasons why VW put out two different Tech Services Bulletins in 1999 recommending the use of ONLY synthetic diesel oil for this engine.

I can tell by looking at the data that you have one of these affected engines - a normal chrome level for this engine is 2-4 ppm after 10,000 miles. I would drop the oil pan, pull the pistons and clean out the ring crevices if you really intend to keep this vehicle.

If you are lucky there is still some crosshatching on the affected cylinders, but there won't be for long at this rate! I've looked at over 100 TDI oil analyses - trust me on this one. The engine is on the way out if you don't correct this problem ASAP.
 
Andy
You should give Delvac 1 a go in that engine. Most TDI owners use it now I hear. Several people here have found it for $10 gallon if I remember correctly, obviously mispriced.
 
quote:

Originally posted by sprintman:
Andy
You should give Delvac 1 a go in that engine. Most TDI owners use it now I hear. Several people here have found it for $10 gallon if I remember correctly, obviously mispriced.


Normally Delvac 1 is $22.50. Good information TooSlick. I wonder what the risk of rings sticking in general on 30 wt. vs 40 wt. ?
 
Al,

Not really an issue of viscosity, but rather thermal decomposition of the oil in the area of the upper piston ring. This engine is designed with a small "crevice volume" and the upper ring is in a very hot zone. Conventional oils tend to coke in the ring grooves and the rings stick. This is when you start to see elevated levels of both Cr and Fe in the analysis. You really want the PAO based synthetic in this particular application.

You can't fix this one simply by changing to a synthetic oil once it has started. You need to take the engine down and do it the right way. I have seen several cases where the Cr and Fe levels dropped a bit after synthetic was used for an extended period, so perhaps some of these deposits were loosened up, but it's a halfway measure.
 
Thanks for the words, TooSlick.

I don't know what the first owner used for oil. It was a VW lease, so I hope he at least used the Syntec from the stealership.

I used Mobil 1 and the Valvoline semi-synth for the first 4K changes after I bought it. Once I digested enough of the oil info on Fred's I switched to the AMSOIL.

I pulled the intake manifold right after I bought the car and cleaned it out. It was almost 60% blocked. The clogged intake had masked that the MAF had failed. I certainly wish I had this car from new...

I've got 6K on the current oil, I'll get some to the lab this week. And it looks like I'll be ordering a pan gasket...

Thanks Al and Sprintman for the Delvac 1 info. I can get the AMSOIL for less and I'm really looking forward to running the 5W-30.

(digging around...let's see..I got a 10mm socket here somewhere...)
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quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Al,

You can't fix this one simply by changing to a synthetic oil once it has started. You need to take the engine down and do it the right way. I have seen several cases where the Cr and Fe levels dropped a bit after synthetic was used for an extended period, so perhaps some of these deposits were loosened up, but it's a halfway measure.


I'm not trying to push this stuff, I'm just thinking of buying a used TDI and am curious about your opinion. Would Auto-RX or another proven cleaner do the job without a teardown?
 
JJBULA,

I was just thinking that it would be worth it for Andy to try the AutoRX in this TDI engine. I'd run it in there with 4 quarts of a 15w-40 petroleum based diesel oil like Delvac 1300. Run it for 500 miles; change the filter, topoff the crankcase and run another 500 miles before doing a total change.

It's worth a shot for $25.00 and may reduce the problem to a managable level.
 
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