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#586111 - 12/16/02 01:12 PM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19287
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Lightman:


Patman, do you really think iron is that high at 43 after 10,200 miles on a chipped car?


Normally I would say no, but with a bypass filter I thought that you would normally only see single digits for all wear metals, even if you ran the oil for 20-25k.

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#586112 - 12/18/02 02:40 AM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
dragboat Offline


Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1933
Loc: Oklahoma
Lightman,
Thank you for posting your analysis on the forum. Thats why Bob set this section up to post and ask questions that may concern you or for others to see what might have been missed ,in this case the type engine and how it's driven along with possible previous oil getting in the way of the best run of this oil,,whatever the previous oil might have been I suspect a dino,of course could be wrong.
Too bad the post got derailed but for what it's worth it shows the rings are a harder material than the block and as the block seasons the iron will come down a bit imo with a but,it is driven pretty hard and it looks like a good result for the type motor and how it's driven. That motor is still young yet and the rings look to be seated.Quite a feet for a chrome ring ;)Also remember 100ppm of FE is still OK if not looking for a perfect world.It looks like the oil held the Fe down better than most could have

What was the previous oil used ? If not Delvac that could have knocked the TBN down imo

For consistency with the next I suggest using the same Lab
EDIT:
I see you have purchased multiple kits already. Thats cool,they will get faster as time goes along but really that was not too long to get a report back imo. It was the Holidays,lotsa mail ect [Cheers!]

[ December 18, 2002, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

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#586113 - 12/18/02 03:04 AM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
Al Offline


Registered: 06/08/02
Posts: 13581
Loc: Elizabethtown, Pa
Interesting-calcium is high like Mobil 1 (with supersyn), and no moly or barium like the old TriSyn. I wonder if Delvac 1 will start adding Moly (seems like they should for Diesel). If not-why not?? [I dont know] Anyone know??

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#586114 - 12/18/02 03:34 AM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
dragboat Offline


Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1933
Loc: Oklahoma
quote:
Originally posted by Al:
Interesting-calcium is high like Mobil 1 (with supersyn), and no moly or barium like the old TriSyn. I wonder if Delvac 1 will start adding Moly (seems like they should for Diesel). If not-why not?? [I dont know] Anyone know??

I am not sure why a good FM is not in the forumulation. It seems a motor firing at about 17.1 compression un boosted could use all it could muster from a oil. Maybe the JASO M/C Spec ? and whoever the Diesel engine maker who does not like Mo have a part in this although I think the boron is a diffent type that is a doule duty additive and gives some FM protection? Dunno but some 132 added maybe ?
[Wink]

Is the CAT branded DelVac 1 the exact same as the Mobil Delvac 1 ???????????

[ December 18, 2002, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

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#586115 - 12/18/02 05:13 AM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
Lightman Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Cleveland, OH
yes cat branded delvac is the same as delvac 1. No nothing BUT delvac 1 was ever run in this engine. The xmas mail thing has nothing to do with why it took so long to get my results, they had my sample sitting there for almost two weeks, and fax results....no mail time needed. They are slow because oil analyzers has transitioned all of their analysis from in house over to cleveland technical center, as they were swamped at OA.
As far as diesel oils go, I dont believe moly or friction modifiers are a good thing, but I can't tell you why. There was a good post in the fuels/lubricants section going about moly in diesel oils, but I didn't really read too much of it.

One thing many may have overlooked, although I mentioned it earlier, is that this 10,000 miles was run completely on b100 biodiesel fuel. This characteristically thins out the oil a bit from fuel dilution, as well as CTC's characteristically known for generally lower tbn ratings than other popular labs. I'm not worried about these results as they look good for a car thats driven really hard.....many times during this 10k I went 90-95mph for 30-45minutes (shots across alligator alley) and at least average 80mph 80% of my driving.

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#586116 - 12/18/02 07:42 AM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
It appears they are relying on borate esters for the AW/EP's, and the base esters for their FM's.

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#586117 - 12/18/02 05:11 PM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
porterdog Offline


Registered: 10/24/02
Posts: 294
Loc: Detroit (Rock City)
Lightman's analysis shows fuel<1, but then says that the biodiesel is known to thin oil. My question is this- is the biodiesel enough different from normal petrol that the lab might miss it? Another way- are the spectra associated with diesel fuel [bio- or otherwise] radically different from those of petrol?

TIA,
Robert

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#586118 - 12/18/02 05:26 PM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
jjbula Offline


Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Montgomery, AL
Does the bypass filter hide any of the wear?

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#586119 - 12/18/02 07:01 PM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
Bio-T Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 5336
Loc: London, AR
quote:
Originally posted by jjbula:
Does the bypass filter hide any of the wear?

The correct answer to your question is a definite Yes, with a qualifier. The same happens with a Full Flow Filter, it removes the larger particles, and the bypass will remove those particles down to say 2 micron. A few smaller, but for the sake of discussion I use 2 micron. So theoretically we are seeing the PPM of particles 2 micron or smaller. These are the wear particles. So in general terms I would say the analysis of a bypass filtered oil is just as accurate for wear. Now if you were doing a particle count then the bypass filter would show only particles below 2 micron in that count. (If some larger particles settled out in the pan, then some would be larger in the count.) This is general, and I am not discussing type analysis ect.

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#586120 - 12/18/02 07:30 PM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
Lightman Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Cleveland, OH
one could also say that a bypass filter reduces wear, by removing the abrasive particles/wear metals that would normally still be floating around the oil.

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#586121 - 12/18/02 09:24 PM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
TexasTDI Offline


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 371
Loc: TYLER, TEXAS
quote:
Originally posted by dragboat:
I am not sure why a good FM is not in the forumulation. It seems a motor firing at about 17.1 compression un boosted could use all it could muster from a oil.

The CR of the TDI is 19.5:1, down from 23:1 in the older 1.6 diesels.

A chipped TDI produces boost upwards of 28psi IIRC.

Chris Thornton
Amsoil Dealer #1098500

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#586122 - 12/18/02 10:27 PM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
dragboat Offline


Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1933
Loc: Oklahoma
quote:
Originally posted by TexasTDI:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dragboat:
[qb]I am not sure why a good FM is not in the forumulation. It seems a motor firing at about 17.1 compression un boosted could use all it could muster from a oil.

The CR of the TDI is 19.5:1, down from 23:1 in the older 1.6 diesels.

A chipped TDI produces boost upwards of 28psi IIRC.

Well your info is fine and dandy but I do not think Mobil designed the Delvac 1 specifically for a VW, modified or not. Do you ? [Smile]

[ December 19, 2002, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

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#586123 - 12/18/02 11:26 PM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
Lightman Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Cleveland, OH
My tdi puts out 20psi max(spike) and settles to a maximum boost of 16psi, Chipped. Stock is 12-13psi. Some more aggressive chips will reach boost spikes of 25psi and settle at 18 or 19psi....

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#586124 - 12/19/02 01:23 AM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
I don't think the iron wear is all that bad for a diesel; it's only about 4.25 ppm/1k.

On my NIssan gas truck, I'm lucky to get 3.5 ppm/1k, so by comparison, I thinks it did very well.

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#586125 - 12/19/02 06:44 PM Re: Delvac 1 results in 2002 Jetta TDI(diesel)
TexasTDI Offline


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 371
Loc: TYLER, TEXAS
quote:
Originally posted by dragboat:
Well your info is fine and dandy but I do not think Mobil designed the Delvac 1 specifically for a VW, modified or not. Do you ? [Smile]

Mobil designed Delvac-1 for big trucks, not VW's. If they did, it would meet VW 505 specs like Amsoil does. [Wink]

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