4 wheel aligment-biggest scam going??

[flinter]

I own a 2005 Hyundai Elantra GLS sedan which I love
that currently has 20,100 miles on it. The vehicle
came with OEM Michelin MXV4 plus tires. Although the
tire are wearing PERFECTLY even all around(6000 mile
rotations), I never liked the feel of these tires,
particularly in rain and snow...they seem mediocore
at best!
Ive decided to purchase the Komho Solus KH16. The
repair shop I go to recommends a 4 wheel aligment
with the installation my new tires.
Since my car track completely straight, with no pull
whatsoever to left or right and my tires have worn
totally even, is a 4 alignment really necessary??
Are 4 wheel alignments the biggest scam ripeoff
going in the auto repair industry today??

 

[Clement]

I wouldn't have it done unless you notice some unusual wear on the tires. I had an alignment performed on my '02 Accent at about 70000 miles after I started to see some unusual wear. Unusual wear is gone, but I haven't noticed any handling or mileage improvements as a result.

 

[CapriRacer]

flinter,

There's a couple of ways of looking at this:

It is clear that most of the alignment problems occur on the front, so in some respects the "4 wheel" part seems unnecessary. However, it has been known that sometimes there is a problem in the rear that causes the effect to be felt in the front. IMHO, if you are going to do an alignment, the only way to go is all 4 wheels. Besides, it's not that much more expensive.

If you are changing tires, you could look at the wheel alignment as an investment in the new tires. While the old tires may not show any signs of misalignment, it sometimes takes thousands of miles for misalignment to show up as tire wear issues. So if something happened in the last couple of thousand miles, the old tires wouldn't show it, but the new tires could be totally ruined later on.

The way I see it is: If you pay attention to your tires - check inflation, rotate regularly, inspect the tires regularly (I do this when I change oil), then the you will probably notice an alignment problem (or any other tire problem) early enough that you can fix it, before the tires are too far gone.

If, however, you rely on others do these things or worse, don't pay attention to your tires at all, then the risk is greater.

It's your money, just be aware of what the risks are.

 

[Mike_dup1]

quote:

---

The
repair shop I go to recommends a 4 wheel aligment
with the installation my new tires.

---

Sure they do, all tire shops will try to sell that service, its a money maker.

What I always ask is this, if the system is in spec, will it be free of charge? Not one has said it would be no charge, same price if the adjust or check. So I dare say probaly 50% or more alignments are a rip-off and it your case, seems totally unnecessary.

 

[Matt_S]

The last time I bought tires, they offered a free alignment check. I accepted and the car turned out fine. They didn't pressure me into any other services. This was at a Belle Tire near me.

 

[labman]

With IRS becoming more common, so are rear alignment problems. The beam axles on FWD cars don't seem to be as stable as the old live axles either. Aside from a little toe in in the front, all 4 wheels need to be vertical and pointed down the road. So yes, a 4 wheel alignment is a good idea. Even the beam axles can be corrected with a shim pack.

 

[Drew99GT]

Yea, I see many many cars with IRS that have SEVERE rear negative camber issues, like bolts loose and suspension pieces move out of there correct position.

 

[Quest]

Because tires are fairly long wearing these days (most come with around 100,000kms threadwear warranties), and given the fact that suspension components such as shocks/struts, ball joints, rubber bushings, etc. go bad over time, I wouldn't be surprised if a car with even-wearing tires may experience slight "out of alignment", esp. AWD and FWD with full independent suspension.

Armed with alignment knowledge, I usually go visit shops or buddies of mine (yeah, I know a few in the trade that are masters on the alignment jig...) to have my alignment checked once every serveral years, more frequently if my car has been through rough roads, port holes, etc.

p.s. gone were the days were 2 wheel alignment on a simple, RWD configuration. Nowadays, it's pretty much calls for 4wheel alignment for all FWD/AWD cars, with no exceptions to the rule. This is the only way to restore proper car handling and tracking.

Tires? Aside from suspension component wear, toe and camber alignment issues, the biggest factor should be your struts/shocks.

 

[rpn453]

If you check your tires regularly and have a good feel for your car (some people don't even seem to notice when a car pulls a little!), I don't think an alignment is needed except to correct a problem. I've never had a four-wheel alignment; I just get a two wheel alignment after replacing front-end components.

IRS = Independent Rear Suspension

 

[obbop]

"what the heck is an IRS??"

Independent rear suspension.

Simply put, both rear tires and associated components bounce up and down on their own without being tied together.

I'm sure anuddah' humanoid can explain it much much mo' better.

 

[Quest]

IMHO 4 wheel alignment is strongly preferred esp. if you have a FWD car.

Afterall: 2 wheel alignment is to assume that your rear wheel suspension and alignments are "good" and thus using the rear end as reference point.

However, this no longer holds true when (a) your car has accumulated some mileage, with rubber bushings and suspension components going; (b) your car has suffered from accidents in the past where rear wheels cannot be taken as a good, reliable reference point anymore.

a bad 2 wheel alignment may lead to dog-tracking.

Q.

 

[another Todd]

Unless you have undesireable tire wear, NO ALIGNMENT SHOULD EVER BE DONE. Alignment is a science---most shops will only screw it up!!! Even if they are using the latest computer controlled alignment machine!!! GIGO. Very few shops and mechanics actually understand what they are doing!!! The two shops I have used in the past have machines that look like they were built before I was born (1958). Their work is perfect every time, and realignment has never been necessary. After a collision, the repair shop took my wifes car to a alignment shop that had the latest equipment. After they did the computer 4 wheel alignment you could turn corners just by letting go of the steering wheel. When I took it back they said it was impossible as the computer does everything. I took it to my (old equipment) shop and they fixed it perfect.

 

[XS650]

Another, you have inadvertanly contradicted yourself.

You say no alignment should ever be done and you say you have found shops that did it right.

New cars roll out of the factory with alignments that are within spec, if you are lucky. But, they could be a lot better. If you have shop that you know does good work, an alignment on a new car can pay for itself in your first set of tires. Especialy if you have car with expensive tires.

 

[Papa Bear]

Yeah, when I worked at Chrysler Canada, we were building a car every 54 seconds. That doesn't give you much time to "ace" the alignment.

P.B.

 

[another Todd]

No no no, what I said was--- "unless you have undesireable tire wear, no alignment should ever be done". Or obviously if the car pulls, you don't need to wait for the tire wear to show up to know you need an alignment. I was replying to Flinters question, when a tire shop is putting on tires and they RECOMMEND an alignment EVEN though the car "tracks straight and the tires wear totally even" should he have the alignment done?--MY ANSWER IS NO.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Papa Bear:
Yeah, when I worked at Chrysler Canada, we were building a car every 54 seconds. That doesn't give you much time to "ace" the alignment.

P.B.

---

Bingo, that's why an alignment is a good idea on a new car. Provided you know you have shop that will do it right.

 

[alreadygone]

flinter,

If you don't trust the shop enough to take their reccomendation. How can you trust them to enough to buy tires from them? Aren't you afraid they'll welch if there's ever a warranty question? Sure the're smart enough to get the nuts tight enough? Too tight?

If you align at all it should be a 4 wheel align. It is a profitable sale for the shop or they wouldn't do it to begin with (They're not here for their health) But it's not a rip off. More of a cheap insurance policy for your new tires.

If you don't align and new tires kinda melt who will be at fault, tires, tire shop, or tight wad who figured align was ok?

Bob

 

[bdcardinal]

i know at my shop, we dont even offer a 2 wheel alignment, and that is nationwide. we have the regular alignment, then a difficult alignment for most european cars where you need to drop the front subframe to adjust camber/caster or have a scan tool attached to the radar controlled cruise control doesnt freak out and not let the car start(seen it happen).

i have done alignments on cars that have just been driven off the lot and they are wayyy off. a lot of newer cars, especially higher performance have a significant amount of negative camber cranked in the front and rear. my car has a solid axle and has rear negative camber.

what does suck though are cars where camber or caster are not adjustable. people basically have to deal with permanent alignment problems on these cars. or you have other vehicles where to adjust camber/caster you have to bust out the welds they do at the factory, or install bushings or strut bolts with cams.

my shop does alignments all day, and most of the comebacks we have for pull are as a result of a bad tire. we will cross rotate and the pull follows the tire. its also fun to explain to DIY'ers who were told by their friend, dad, brother, uncle, whos a "mechanic" that rear angles arent adjustable that yes i did just adjust rear toe. i always give a printout with before nad after specs, and i also will provide a printout with pictures of the procedure i did to make the adjustment that they were told couldnt be made.

 

[labman]

Another makes a good point. Don't remember any problems before having my one car aligned. 2 weeks later when I got back from vacation, I realized both front tires were shot because the inside edges were worn away. I went back to the shop. I managed not to deck the guy when he commented, ''It wasn't off very far, I am surprised you noticed it.'' Last penny I ever spent there.

 

[RH+G]

quote:

---

No no no, what I said was--- "unless you have undesireable tire wear, no alignment should ever be done". Or obviously if the car pulls, you don't need to wait for the tire wear to show up to know you need an alignment. I was replying to Flinters question, when a tire shop is putting on tires and they RECOMMEND an alignment EVEN though the car "tracks straight and the tires wear totally even" should he have the alignment done?--MY ANSWER IS NO.

---

That is probably the worst advice you can give. No offense. A car can drive straight and have worn the old tires evenly but when you put the new ones on and in 10000 miles they are worn funny what do you do? You buy new tires with an alignment. So why not at least check the alignment when you get the new tires. Alot of shops that do alignments on these newer cars are alaways trying to fix the negative camber. The factory left it negative for handling reasons.