Help with GM Gen II 3800 engine

[pacem]

I am looking into this 1995 Buick LeSabre with 165K miles... the engine was advertized as "rebuilt"

well come to find out, this is what has been done to it:

Head Gasket
Rod Bearings
Pistons
Piston Rings
TIming Belt
Camshaft
Oil Pump


Now it's a well known fact that Generation II 3.8L engine suffered from upper intake manifold problems. It was made of plastic and melted and caused all kinds of problems. (Click on the link for more info)

My question is to the gurus here is, is this what happened to this engine? Has coolant leaked into the engine and destroyed it, make the rebuilt necessary? Is it still OK?

Secondly, if I do go look at the car, how do I verify that the plastic upper intake plenum has been replaced from plastic to metal?


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.pontiac/browse_thread/thread/d1995eae9bcf3969/c7e71766e7f36e6e?lnk=st&q=GM+3800+intake+manifold+plastic+1995+buick&rnum=2&hl=en#c7e71766e7f 36e6e

 

[Hirev]

Hard to say what went wrong. Could have been a coolant leak but could also have over heated. Words Rebuilt engine do not carry much weight compared to a Remanufactured engine. At 165K miles I would not buy it.

 

[pacem]

Well, what do you think about offering them say $1500 for it?

 

[Clyde65]

First off, the replacement UIM will still be plastic, but with aluminum framed gaskets. The problem with the EGR melting the plastic UIM has been remedied with the newer UIM's. Has the engine been rebuilt or just had parts replaced? Have the block and heads been resurfaced? Have the cylinders been resized or honed? Have the main caps been lined bored? Those are some of the things you want to find out. The 3800 series II is an oustanding engine. Buy with confidence.

 

[T-Keith]

The plastic melting is one issue. Directly related to an air bubble in the system IMO, the other is the lower intake gaskets getting destroyed from unchanged coolant. Both are avoidable, and fairly easy to fix. The 3800 can take coolant leaks better then any other engine I've seen. So unless they let it eat coolant for a long time without changing the oil, you should be OK.

 

[m2200b]

What about the trannie? If the previous owner would let coolant go long enough at a pint every week for what a year or two to toast the engine - what's that say about the rest of his maintenance?

I'd either discount the price so I can repair it on the assumption I will need to or need evidence it was fixed correctly before buying either a 3.8 gen2 GM or the 3.1 GM.

 

[Matt_S]

The 3800 Series II is a great engine (I have one), but I wouldn't touch this one. The fact that an imcomplete rebuild was done would scare me away from it bigtime. I think you're asking for problems with this car.

 

[JMG]

Why for some reason am I thinking that the 3.8 didn't have a timing belt?

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt_S:
The 3800 Series II is a great engine (I have one), but I wouldn't touch this one. The fact that an imcomplete rebuild was done would scare me away from it bigtime. I think you're asking for problems with this car.

---

Agreed, without know more this is a big risk. 3800s rarely need rebuilding at that mileage. In addition, a used engine would likely be better then many "rebuilds". Not many people can rebuild a modern engine to be nearly as good as the factory.

 

[Matt_S]

quote:

---

Posted by Matt_S
imcomplete

---

Regarding the timing belt, that's a good point, but it's probably just a typo. Those engines, along with virtually everything GM produces, have a chain.

 

[pacem]

thanks for feedback

Agree about the typo about the timing "belt", they all use chains.

I will stay away from Gen II 3800 unless someone fixed the plastic plenum issue correctly. Or get the supercharged version, I hear they do not have this problem.

Or else go to year 2000, is that when they finally fixed it?

 

[lght1]

Hi

By using a Dorman with the reduced chimney, aluminum LIM gaskets and G0-5 coolant, even a '95 SII would be considered fixed.

My own '97 is fixed.. see, no composite UIM

 

[Clyde65]

quote:

---

Originally posted by lght1:
My own '97 is fixed.. see, no composite UIM

---

Where did you get that aluminum UIM anyway?

 

[lght1]

Hi

From the General. This manifold is actually from the '04 and up SIII version.

Since these engines also use a drive-by-wire TB, you need a TB adapter for the SII, which can be had from zzperformance.

However, the Dorman and reduced EGR chimney for the pre- mid yr 99s should be considered a fix as well.

The mid yr '99s had a somewhat reduced stack which delayed the problem 25-40k mi but did not stop it altogether. This is why the 2000s through 2005s SIIs can still leak , although not so soon.

 

[Schmoe]

The 3.8 is about as good as it gets. I had the 3.3 in my '90 Cutlass, which is the younger cousin of the 3.8, and everything worked beautifully. Just everything else started falling apart. I had almost thought about trying to put that engine, even with 200K on the clock, in my boat, but too much adaptation problems.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pacem:
thanks for feedback

Agree about the typo about the timing "belt", they all use chains.

I will stay away from Gen II 3800 unless someone fixed the plastic plenum issue correctly. Or get the supercharged version, I hear they do not have this problem.

Or else go to year 2000, is that when they finally fixed it?

---

I wouldn't stay away from series 2 engines(gen 2 is incorrect, more like gen 6 or 7). They get 30mpg, make good power and a smooth running. The EGR tube IS NOT an issue if you keep the cooling system full and change the coolant regularly, this is maintenance.

-T

 

[lght1]

Hi

The SIIs began in some models in 1995 and continued in the Impala until redesign in '06.

The LaCross and the GP got the L26 Series III ( alu UIM and drive-by-wire TB) in '04.

The alu LIM gasket started showing up last year.

 

[Jim Spahr]

No one has said that with the list of items replaced- the mechanic did have to replace the intake manifold gasket, even though it is not listed. You don't know if it was a standard intake manifold gasket or a new, improved man. gasket to solve the problem. So, at worst case, you have bought some time-assuming the mechanic did a good job and used good quality parts.