'98 Lumina with 3.1 V6 losing coolant and no signs of a leak such as from the water pump. It has 59K miles. Is this a sign that the intake manifold is going bad? What are the typical symptoms of a leaking intake manifold? Anything I can check to tell if it has the I/M leak?
98 Lumina with 3.1 V6 losing coolant?
- Thread starter Jim Spahr
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Check your oil, and if it looks like a chocolate milkshake then you've got a leak somewhere. Also, if you can get your plugs out and if you see any puffy buildup on them then that also might indicate a leak.
If you open your hood and you have a GM 3.1L or 3.4L OHV V6, then you have symptoms
A quick UOA will put this in perspective, in terms of both existence and severity of the problem. It costs you about $20 and you'd know in about 5 days.
Indeed, your engine comes from the years that experienced the leakage problem. The good thing is, if you get it fixed before serious damage is done to the engine, it will live a LONG life with decent maintenance. I just sold a GM with a 3.1 to one of my friends and it's still running well at 175,000 miles. That car was a '95 and didn't have "the" problem.
Indeed, your engine comes from the years that experienced the leakage problem. The good thing is, if you get it fixed before serious damage is done to the engine, it will live a LONG life with decent maintenance. I just sold a GM with a 3.1 to one of my friends and it's still running well at 175,000 miles. That car was a '95 and didn't have "the" problem.
Agree with your 1st point about UOA.
But your 2nd paragraph has me confused. How do you know that it will (or can) live a long life if the I/M leak is fixed ASAP. Your car lasted a while but admittedly it didn't have the problem. Where do you draw your conclusion from? Several folks have had to get it fixed more than once.
BTW, I have had this problem fixed once so far on a '94 3.1L. The car has 156,100 miles on it. So they can last a while if taken care of. I was just curious how you were able to make your statement.
benjamming,
I'm not a mechanic, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
The leak is, to my knowledge, the only real weakness of this engine. I base this on a lot of reading around on the 'net, as well as discussions that I have with a couple of GM mechanics who work on them frequently.
One thing that these mechanics advised me about [which may answer your 'repeat problem' question] is at one point, GM had a backorder on the "improved" replacement gasket, and many cars were fitted with the same, inferior one just to get them back on the road. Both of these mechanics said that they had ZERO comebacks on gasket replacements when the improved part was used. I honestly have not read of people having to get this problem fixed more than once. Hope this helps. Yes, it's all second-hand info, but I can assure you these guys have no reason to lie to me about it.
I'm not a mechanic, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
The leak is, to my knowledge, the only real weakness of this engine. I base this on a lot of reading around on the 'net, as well as discussions that I have with a couple of GM mechanics who work on them frequently.
One thing that these mechanics advised me about [which may answer your 'repeat problem' question] is at one point, GM had a backorder on the "improved" replacement gasket, and many cars were fitted with the same, inferior one just to get them back on the road. Both of these mechanics said that they had ZERO comebacks on gasket replacements when the improved part was used. I honestly have not read of people having to get this problem fixed more than once. Hope this helps. Yes, it's all second-hand info, but I can assure you these guys have no reason to lie to me about it.
I have a 1993 Lumina 3.1L since new and no problems with coolant leaks. If only has 68,000 miles (was my mothers go to church to and store car but she can't drive anymore). Only $$ spent on the car was yearly oil changes with synthetic, new exhuast once, new brakes once (rear rusted up bad). We also had many 1996 up Lumina 3.1L where I worked (retired 02) and never heard of any intake manifold leaks with them. All the people who drove them never complained about them or had major problems for the 100,000 mile lease. One guy I know drove his for about 190,000 miles and told me he had no problem with the car. Since 2001 he has had 2 Ford Taurus's that have been nothing but problems. His first one was called back at 80,000 for frequent and severe maintanence trends (repair costs exceed residual value,lease is automatically up) and his 2005 has been in the dealer a few times he says. Want his old Lumina back. He travels many miles, daily 60 miles to office than out to patrol state hwy's for maint concerns.
In the '98 Lumina, the oil looks good and black. No chocolate color. The only symptoms are the low coolant and I have seen droplets of oil in the coolant, too.
It's not only the issue with the early production gaskets - it's also the too small (diameter) and too few lower intake bolts contributing to the intake loosening. I have done 3, including our own 99 Cutlass, and in all cases, the bolts were barely tighter than finger tight.
I think that the combination of good prep, newer design gasket, and proper sealing/tightening of the bolts helps to prevent comebacks.
I think that the combination of good prep, newer design gasket, and proper sealing/tightening of the bolts helps to prevent comebacks.
Gotta love that 3.1, I've got a 3.3 in a 92 buick, no such problems.
Correction- I originally said it was a '98 Lumina. It is a '96. This is my mother's car and is in a different city, so I have limited access to it. RE: the 'best' intake manifold gaskets- is the Dorman OE Solutions better than Fel-Pro gaskets? GM revised gaskets? What is the best gasket to cure this problem. Advance auto has the fel-Pro gasket set for 49.99, but it includes some sort of tray.
just get rid of it the 3.1 has always been a lousy engine everyone i know has had problems with either head gasket or intake gaskets i had 2 myself a 94 sunbird and 96 grand am trust me dump the car
Whenever I've looked at a used GM vehicle if the V6 was the 3.1 I'd prefer to get one with the 4 cylinder (2.2 or 2.4). Grand Ams, Skylarks, malibu's etc. that had the 3.1 engine also offered a 4 cylinder option.
Re: the 3.1 and the 3.4. I believe they are both based on the 2.8L V6 that GM originally put in the 1980> GM X cars- Skylark, Citation,Phoenix, etc. I feel the intake manifold is a faily easy fix and the gaskets are rel. inexpensive. I believe I could do it in a weekend. A pro mech could do it in a day, easily. If I were buying a GM V6, I do believe I would get a 3.8 L V6 which was originally a Buick design.
I am 'resurrecting' this old thread because I just had a co-worker friend do the gasket in my 02' Buick Century 3.1. The car has 80K and when I did my first UOA last fall it said "slight trace of potassium, keep an eye on the i/m gasket". I added another bottle of Barsleaks and waited till spring to change it. It took an experienced mechanic (who had never done one before) about 8 hours. he acknowledged that if he were doing them 'everyday' he would probably cut the time in half. He told me that his friend at the Chevy dealer said the 'book' time is 7 hours but that he does it in about 4 hours. We used a FELPRO THERMA-DRY (Problem solver) gasket and new bolts which came with the 'locktite' already applied to the bolt. Since the locktite looked dry we added 1 drop of additional locktite to each bolt. We used the RTV silicone as described in the directions and tighten the bolts in the sequence specified by GM. (the original bolts were found to be just fingertight). The 'internals' of my engine were very clean and sludge free so I am fairly certain that I caught the problem before any damage was done.
After reading a lot of information regarding this problem and witnessing the repair I believe that poor gasket and fastener design are the problem and that DEXCOOL is not the problem.
After reading a lot of information regarding this problem and witnessing the repair I believe that poor gasket and fastener design are the problem and that DEXCOOL is not the problem.
'pbm', thanks for the update. I like the 3.1 and the 3.4 L engine and really believe they are worth a new 'Problem Solver' gasket and TLC. The correct RTV and bolt torque sequence is always important, but esp. here with these i/m. Although the lifetime DexCool coolant may not have directly contibuted to the problem here, in general DexCool needs to be changed frequetly OR upgraded to the new either-or variety. I have had a bad experience with DexCool in a Chev V8 LT1.
Make sure you get the new bolts from GM with the Loctite on them.
I've dealth with several of the lower intake manifold gaskets in 3100's. They're a #@$%! good engine except for that gasket problem. You made the right choice with the FelPro problem saver gaskets- they're a greatly improved design.
Even though I absolutely WILL NOT run Dexcool in anything that I own... I don't think it is the cause of the gasket problems. Every one of these gaskets I've replaced has been split where the sealing bead is molded into the plastic. It's just a bad design.
Even though I absolutely WILL NOT run Dexcool in anything that I own... I don't think it is the cause of the gasket problems. Every one of these gaskets I've replaced has been split where the sealing bead is molded into the plastic. It's just a bad design.
Oh yeah- and the bolts come loose... especially the short ones in the corners. New locktited bolts from GM are fine. I've always just cleaned the old bolts and put red locktite on them- works fine, too... and is much cheaper than $4 per bolt at the stealer.
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