Green versus Orange Coolant

[TheLoneRanger]

Hi guys. I mixed some of the orange/long life coolant with some of the green/standard (ethelene glycol) in my Jeep last summer. Since then, I have read that mixing the two is bad, and will cause harm to the cooling system.

Someone please tell me it's OK. The weather is going to be in the 30's tomorrow with snow flurries, and I don't want to do vehicle maintainence.....

 

[OneQuartLow]

Ranger, What I've read about this is that the orange coolants (still ethylene glycol based) will cause silicates to precipitate out of green coolants, killing the alkalinity (corrosion protection). It won't hurt the anti-freezing characteristic, but the metals in your radiator and engine water passages won't be happy. Running a year with a mix could do damange so I'd flush & go with one or the other type soon. Not necessarily in the next few days though.

David

 

[Patman]

I wouldn't want that mixture in there, so I'd head over to a local garage and have them do a full flush and fill on the system.

 

[slickracer]

When you have your system flushed, be sure to replace it with the green antifreeze. Several GM techs I know don't have many kind words for Dexcool.

 

[Al]

I don't think it will hurt anything. It has both ethylene glycol and diethylene glycol, so why would it cause a problem with adding it to a mixture of ethylene glycol. As was pointed out is phosphate and silicate free. The container doesn't tell you not to mix it with conventional antifreeze. I have mixed it in the past, but did not have the mixture in for more than a year-probably.

Having said that though, I would defer to the knowledge of OneQuartLow. Why chance it??

 

[satterfi]

The general consensus among Honda Goldwing owners is that Prestone and other coolants with silicates causes water pump seal leakage.

Silicates precipitate and the crystals score the pump seal, causing leakage.

Honda issued a recall for the Goldwing but many other models experienced pump seal damage due to antifreeze with silicates.

I'm using Dexcool and I have noticed brown stuff in the over flow container. I change it once a year.

 

[TheLoneRanger]

My thanks to all for the replies. I am getting the orange stuff out of there ASAP! From now on, I'm sticking with the green; no use taking chances.

By the way, I recently bought a 00 Explorer for the wife to drive. The owners manual specifically warns against using the long-life coolant. The engine has an iron block and iron heads, but it may have an aluminum radiator (I'm not sure).

 

[Patman]

The general consensus in the f-body world is also the same, they say Dexcool sucks. It fills with brown crud so easily, and definitely isn't a 5yr coolant. Many guys I know switched their car over from Dexcool to conventional stuff. I'm glad my f-body was built before the switchover to Dexcool.

 

[Dominic]

Its best not to mix the two no.

I would flush my coolant out to green but the water here is quite hard and the only way I know how to do it involves using tap water

 

[buster]

I'm not a fan of Dexcool. There have been some problems with it in certain cars. Mixing the two is not good. Japanese cars use the Red, as well as some European cars. In my toyota, i put the dexcool in and then read a good article in Popular Mechanics magazine that made me change my mind. Your better off sticking with what the manufacturer fill was. If you did mix them, do a power flush, then refill.

 

[Pablo]

Even some "litter-rat-sure" says mixing OK. I say: NO STINKING WAY to mixing.

OTOH, I have been using DEXCOOL in ALL my cars with ZERO problems (no I don't use Amsoil coolant!) I have read many accounts of issues - but I don't think this a pure "it's just bad chemistry" thing.

My comments:

1) as stated get every drop of old stuff out when changing over - in fact change over when it's hose and water pump time or something. Or run pure water for an hour (not winter OK?), then rinse again.

2) 5 years? dunno, the Toyota truck has made it 5 years with Dexcool....245Ti 4 years...

3) Dexcool does not "like" leaks - especially faulty pressure relief devices in rad. caps - the stuff easily makes a crusty precipitate on "exposure" and will further muck with these type of devices...

 

[Patman]

One of the reasons why Dexcool does not mix well with conventional coolant is that Dexcool is supposedly thinner. So just like you shouldn't mix 20w50 with 5w20 oil, you shouldn't really mix Dexcool with the green stuff.

 

[WeyounDS9]

I believe the main source of bad stories about orange, has to be switching w/o a COMPLETE system flush (double flush is better).
When the two additive systems mix, they combine with each other to form insolubles(ie sludge).
The big advantage of orange is that it is free of both slicates and phosphates.

It achieves this by using organic acid/base buffer systems vs the inorganic acid/base buffer systems typical of green coolants.

Its additive packages have a greatyer buffering capacity.

I still flush my coolant yearly, there is nothing more important for your angine except oil changes.

Fred...

 

[RobZ71LM7]

I've had Dexcool in three different vehicles with no problems. Most of the problems come from not checking the ph level, allowing the coolant level to drop too low, or having air in the system. I personally am sick of Dexcool being bashed by people with no direct experience with it.

 

[carl97ss]

LOL....Toyota guy using Dexcool....In my Camaro, I'm using Toyota coolant...

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by carl97ss:
LOL....Toyota guy using Dexcool....In my Camaro, I'm using Toyota coolant...

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Monarch will thank you for that!

 

[cobravenom71]

I have talked to several GM techs(1-800, not dealership pesonel)who have told me that mixing the two will not any harm, it will just reduce the life to that of the 'standard' coolant.
I also talked to a Texaco engineer who claims that they invented the stuff. He says it was originally called 'Tex-Cool', and that GM bought the exclusive rights to the product.
The Texaco guy told me that it was tested in several new Caterpillar Tractors and run for over a MILLION miles each with zero problems. He also claims that the only reason GM capped it at 150,000 miles was for liability and warranty reasons. Thats what he told me, anyway.
Like everybody else, I've had a tremendous amount of customers with the brown 'goop' problems(is 'goop' the correct technical description?), and most just prefer to switch it out to the green stuff. I have removed it from my own GM's.

 

[Ed]

Mixing the two won't hurt anything immediately but since the anti corrosion chemicals are not additive between the two you get less than half the anti corrosion capability that either product normally gives. This means that corrosion and rust can form at an alarmingly high rate and gives the appearance of forming nasty sludge.
The long life properties of Dex-Cool or it's equivalent is only valid for vehicles for which it was originally intended. It's OK to use in any vehicle but must be changed at least as often as regular anti-freeze so has no real advantage other than being kinder to waterpump bearings.
Several brands of green antifreeze are adverising reduced silicates so this is not really a problem.
Regular Prestone is a high silicate formulation, Zerex and Peak are low silicate formulas. The high silicate formulas are better at sealing minor leaks and seepage but low silicates are better for waterpump longevity. Ya pays yer money and takes yer choice.

 

[nick778]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
I'm not a fan of Dexcool. There have been some problems with it in certain cars. Mixing the two is not good. Japanese cars use the Red, as well as some European cars. In my toyota, i put the dexcool in and then read a good article in Popular Mechanics magazine that made me change my mind. Your better off sticking with what the manufacturer fill was. If you did mix them, do a power flush, then refill.

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Toyota uses red but the other asian OEMs(i.e., Nissan, Honda, Kawasaki MCs) use a blue green. All are the same silicate free, high phosphorus type antifreeze however. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy this type of antifreeze from anywhere except the OEM dealer at a cost of about $15-$17/gallon. This type of antifreeze is best used with distilled water. Since most European countries typically have hard water, the antifreeze in European OEMs is of a high silicate, non phosporous type. To compound the complexity of the matter, Ford is now using a new non phosphorous, low silicate yellow antifreeze(Zerex sells this OTC). All of the above are mixable though as they are of the same green type, EG, base.
My personal experience with Dexcool is that is it ok if it is maintained properly(i.e., no air in the system and the overflow container is kept to the max level) but I do not believe it can go 5 years/150,000 miles without problems. And, for the reasons already mentioned, I would not mix it with any of the green/EG varieties. I witnessed this being done to a '99 Blazer and, within 6 months, there was a good deal of rust and sludge in the system. GM vehicles in particular have a water pump designed to prevent cavitation so they can use Dexcool. I would not use it in any vehicle in which it wasn't the factory fill.

 

[widman]

I'm not really sure color has anything to do with the problem. There are lost of colors out there in different formulations. The Texaco spec sheet says to make sure you do not mix their product with the other formulations. The following is Chevron's recommendation for their new Delo Extended Life Coolant:
"ChevronTexaco recommends flushing your system with clean water if you have been using conventional coolants. If significant deposits are visible, use a commercial cooling system flush designed for your engine, follow the manufacturer's flushing procedure and dispose of properly. Flush with water twice afterwards.

When changing Delo Extended Life Prediluted 50/50 Coolant/Antifreeze after 600,000 miles of on-road use (three years or 12,000 hours of off-highway use), flush with clean water only. Do not use commercial flushes. In the event that a commercial flush is inadvertently used, completely flush the cooling system (twice) with clean water.

The primary limiting factor in the shelf life of a coolant is silicate instability. Since silicate will eventually polymerize to silicate gel, all traditional silicate-based coolants have a shelf life of about 18 months. Delo Extended Life Coolant System is silicate-free and, therefore, can be stored for extended periods (up to 8 years) provided the integrity of the container is maintained."