Multigrade / Straight Weight for Detroit Diesel

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
I have had extensive experience with in-line and Vee two stroke (2cycle) Detroits since the 1960s

You MUST ONLY use a straight grade (viscosity) low ash (1% max.)engine oil and one specifically approved for such use (TBN 8 to 10)- to API's quality spec. CD-2 but preferably CF-2. (To enable easier starting, a multigrade low ash HDEO 15w-40 or SAE30 can be used in temps from minus 32C to minus 18C)

Search on here and in the heavy vehicle area for more data

The Amsoil product mentioned in an earlier post here is unsuitable for these engines

Castrol makes an excellent range of most suitable CF-2 oils for these engines - called Castrol CRB, it is availabe in SAE30, SAE40 (most popular and recommended) and SAE50 grades

Oil sampling may work but due to the high oil consumption with these engines you are much better to use the Detroit Diesel recommended OCIs as follows;

For oils with TBN above 10+,
Highway - 10k miles
City - 8k miles
Stationary/Agricultural units - 150 hours

Regards
Doug

 

[DR Racing]

What is wrong with the amsoil? Maybe too thin is all I see.

APPLICATIONS
Where these viscosity grades are specified, AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Diesel Oil (ACD) provides outstanding performance as a straight-grade SAE 30 for older two- and four-stroke diesels and as a multi-grade SAE 10W-30 in modern four-stroke diesels as well as gasoline engines. AMSOIL ACD is ideal for use in a wide variety of light and heavy-duty applications, including agriculture, off-road construction, trucking, mining, industrial (pumps and generators) and personal automotive or commercial transportation. It is recommended for use with low or high sulfur diesel fuels in standard, turbocharged or supercharged engines, including modern low emission diesels such as those equipped with EGR systems.

PERFORMANCE
AMSOIL ACD is recommended for all diesel engines requiring any of the listed worldwide specifications. It also may be used in gasoline engines where the performance standards API SL or prior are specified.

API CI-4+/CH-4/CG-4/SL
API CF/CE/CD/CC
API CF-2/CD-II
Global DHD-1
ACEA A3, B3, E3, E5
JASO DH-1
Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
Detroit Diesel Power Guard 93K214
Caterpillar ECF-1
Cummins CES 20076, 20077, 20078 (current), 20071/20072 (older)
Volvo VDS3, VDS2
Mercedes Benz 228.1, 228.3, 229.1
MAN 271, 3275

 

[Steve S]

What is wrong with Amsoil, Detroit 2 strokes drink oil , that is what is wrong with Amsoil.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
well, for one thing it is the wrong viscosity - a SAE40 grade is the standard! And very important it is too!!!

I won't be drawn in to knocking any oil but I try to deal with the facts not emotion - the result is always better!

Steve s - you are on one of the correct paths!

Regards
Doug

 

[Bio-T]

Royal Purple makes an oil specifically for the Detroit Diesel Series 149 engine, it is the 40DD. This oil has a TBN-8 and sulfated ash %0.72. It is rated CF-2 and for use with an engine run with less that 0.5 sulfur content.

They also have a 30, 40, and 50W all rated CF,CF-2/SJ for high sulfur content diesel fuels. In extreme cold climatic conditions (-18C--32C) the 10W40 CF,CF-2SJ may be used in all engines except the Series 149.

 

[Stinky Peterson]

They have some very specific requirements for the 2 stoke engines. I would not depart from the CF-2 40 weight requirement.

Basically for less than 0.5%
CF-2
SAE 40
Sulfated Ash 1.0% max
Alkalinity (ASTM D 2896) 7.0 Min

You can download the specs from the DD website.

 

[bulwnkl]

Has anyone ever noticed that you almost never see a genuine CF-2 certification along with the recent Cx-4 certifications in one oil? Looking at the spec sheets (for example, the Delo 400 spec sheets) it is clear that none of the recent Cx-4-spec oils meet the sulfated-ash
I'm tempted to slam Amsoil here for their common usage of the "meets performance specifications of" idea rather than getting actual API certification. However, since Amsoil doesn't publish sulfated ash content of their ACD product on their site, I don't know whether such a slam is in order.

Stick with an oil that is actually CF-2 certified so that you are sure you're meeting ALL of DD's requirements.

 

[416Rigby]

Rimula and Rotella straight weights mention Detroit 2-cycles on the labels, I believe. Just look for those.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
I did not want to be drawn into this but Detroit Diesel specifically state;

(Reference: Detroit Diesel 7SE270)

"Some marketers may claim that their lubricant is suitable for all makes of diesel engines and may list engine makes and types including Detroit Diesel on their containers. Such claims by themselves are insufficient as a method of lubricant selection for Detroit Diesel engines"

They also state specific needs for any synthetic oil used in a DD 2 stroke engine! They must for instance be free of any Viscosiity Index additives and no extended OCIs are permitted!

Regards
Doug

 

[oilyriser]

I once saw a marine 25W40 that had CF-2 on the back.

 

[brian fix]

What to run in a 2 Cycle diesel//// For one thing use a straight wt or very little of the OLD vi improvers,,the new oils offer a better and more lube though stay within close limits,,,,,as 10w-30 cold or 15w 40,,,, asthese will work,,,40# in general,,Brand preference is a matter of opinion in this situation ,,though keep ash inder 1.2wt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BL

 

[corey872]

Greetings gents,

Took a recent trip to Detroit Diesel facility to witness a teardown of an engine. This is a 60’s era roots-blown, 2 stroke, 2-71 DD. Our guys told DD that the engine was run on multigrade oil and DD guys flipped out and insisted that straight weight was the only way to go. (Should have seen them when we said the oil change interval was ~6000 to 7000 hours)

To make a long story short, I am helping set up an oil sampling program to get a better feel for acceptable oil change intervals. But I’m curious what the “state-of-the-art” thinking is with the multigrade / straight oil in diesels. The DD guys claimed that multigrade would “pound out” the rocker arms, push-rods, etc. I suspect this is a reference to losing film thickness on these critical parts, but don’t know if this is “old school” thinking and the modern multigrades have evolved past it, or if there is truly still an issue.

Anybody here have any experience / input and care to take a moment to enlighten me?

Thanks!
Corey

 

[DR Racing]

Amsoil has just released a new formulation diesel oil that is a straight 30w and multigrade 10w-30 all in one product. The definition of a straight weight is no VII's added with there associated problems with break down. It is the oil I am going to use in my jetta diesel. Dan

 

[kenneth neeley]

Delo 100 40W works well. The newer CI oils will bring the ole screamin demons to an early death. I would stick with Chevron or Mobil

 

[Ken2]

No question...CF-2 rated oil, 40 wt. in most climates and 30 wt. in cold winter areas. The engines consume too much oil to justify the cost of synthetic.

The sulfated ash content of the oil is slightly variable. If the ash is the softer, oil-soluble ash from calcium detergents, the 1% can safely be exceeded.

corey,
Look closely at Schaeffer's #107 40 wt oil for safe extended drains, reduced wear and carbon, and lowest total cost per hour. If the engine is recently overhauled and not burning much oil, the #702 synthetic blend will run longer. If the engine is in standby service in the winter, use the syn blend for easier starting and better cold lubrication. 150 hour oil drain interval is common on hard worked engines, but with the Schaeffer oil, expect 300-400 hours on a decent engine.


Ken

 

[TooSlick]

Amsoil has extensive field performance data on their synthetic oils in older Detroit Diesel, two stroke engines going back several decades...

Both the straight 30wt/ACD and both their 15w-40's work very well here. I can specifically remember one large fleet test of the Detroit Diesel, "6V92-TTA" engine. This test involved about 45 trucks and an average test length of 350,000 miles per truck, as I recall. Engine wear, oil consumption and piston deposits were both very low and there was no ring breakage.

If you are interested I'd be glad to go into my files and find some of this old data and sent it to you.

The bottom line is that there are NO issues related to using either the Amsoil 30wt or 15w-40 multigrades in this application.

TS

[ April 30, 2005, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]

 

[TooSlick]

I wanted to add something to this thread....

Amsoil introduced the first 15w-40, HD synthetic diesel oil on the market way back in 1979, called "50/100". It was good for 50,000 mile service in CAT, Cummins and Mack engines and 100,000 mile service in two stroke, Detroit Diesel/DD engines. The reason for the longer service interval in the DD engines is that these were "loose" engines that burned a lot more oil....

Amsoil does not meet the low ash requirements for DD engines. However oil consumption with Amsoil is generally 30%-50% less that with a conventional diesel oil. So piston cleanliness is excellent even with their 12+ TBN formulations and a moderately higher sulphated ash content in the 1.0%-1.5% range.

Tooslick

 

[JR]

6-71 powered ih dump truck. Burning traveller all fleet sae30 spring/fall, mystic sae50 summer, bulk 10w-30 winter. Uncles pond digging biz.

Dodge grain truck with 6-71. Burning bulk 15w-40… Boss is a farmer, one oil plus Lucas and stp in everything.

Both scream like a r**ed ape and trowls like a heardle of turtles.
I cursed with a liking to old dinosaurs.

Harvey

 

[Ramblejam]

This is an exceedingly old thread, but for the sake of Harvey...

Mobil Delvac 1300 15w-40 carries the CF-2 designation (which is vitally important here...), and will replace all of the varying products you're currently using.